08:34 – We’re still waiting to hear about the house we made an offer on. It’s a short sale, which complicates things, and the owners had also filed for bankruptcy back in 2013, which complicates things further. The bankruptcy court apparently cleared the bankruptcy in November 2014, but there are still two claims showing against the title. One of them is a pest control company, which is probably only for a few hundred dollars, but the other is by a mortgage company for $27,000. The owners claim that both of those claims were vacated during the bankruptcy, which makes sense, but they’re still showing on the official records. Our broker told me yesterday that it seems likely that the owners’ bankruptcy attorney didn’t do his job to get those liens cleared after the bankruptcy, so they’re currently waiting for him to correct matters. If they can get these issues cleared up, things may begin moving quickly and we may be able to close within the next 30 days or so.
Barbara got a junk mail solicitation yesterday from AAA. She walked into my office, handed me the application, and said she thought we should join. I agreed, so I called them and signed up. The basic membership was $49/year, but included only three free miles of towing. After that, it was $4/mile. The upgraded membership at $84/year included free towing up to 100 miles. Given what we’re likely to be doing over the next year, Barbara said and I agreed that the upgraded membership made sense for us, so I signed up for it. The only question they asked was whether we owned an RV, a motorcycle, or a dualie pickup truck. Presumably they charge more per year if someone owns any of those. We don’t.
I spent some time yesterday working on the instruction guide for the open-pollinated seed kit and will continue work on it today. All but two of the first batch of these kits are already spoken for, but we’ll continue to accept orders for now at the $100 price. If you want to order a kit or kits, see yesterday’s post.
14:34 – We have commenced work on the Augean Stables, AKA my office. The only real differences are that the Augean Stables had been cleaned more recently than my office, and that I have only three or four cattle in my office. Unless some are still staying hidden.
I remember 15 years or so ago, Barbara was complaining about how cluttered and dirty my office was. (That was back before she just gave up on it.) I downloaded and showed her photos of Anand’s office and Pournelle’s office, both of which looked pretty much identical to mine. Of course, Jerry cleaned up his office a bit shortly after that. Roberta had finally made good on her threat to do it herself. She was hauling boxes out of the Great Room and dropping them over the railing to plummet down into the trash cart she’d rolled into the foyer, one floor down. He finally got serious about cleaning up himself when he caught her about to drop a sealed full case of new hard drives over the edge and into the trash cart.
Once we get this place mostly cleaned out, I’ll have just what I need for immediate tasks–shipping kits, stuff I’m currently writing, and so on. When we finally get moved out of here, I’ll take my desk with me. It’s a 3-0 solid-core door, mounted in a corner to 2X6’s bolted into the studs, with the free corner sitting on a 2-drawer file cabinet. That, and removing my bookshelves, which are 1X10 pine boards supported by screw-in wall brackets, means we’ll have a lot of patching, spackling, and painting to do. In fact, we’ll probably paint most of the walls that are currently painted, and probably the ceilings as well. Flat white for the ceilings, gloss ivory for the woodwork and doors, and I’d guess eggshell for the walls throughout. Something nice and neutral that a new buyer can live with.
I have been an AAA member since the early 90’s. I have it mainly for the towing benefit, but there are other benefits as well. Using just some of them will easily pay back the membership fee.
Maps- customized for your trip are much less useful, but from a prepper standpoint, getting some free road maps is a good idea.
Discounts- whether auto care or ice cream, there are a bunch of places that will give discounts for AAA members, including hotel chains. I’ve saved thousands over the years of traveling by using “the AAA rate.”
Jump start, out of gas, lockout, dead battery service- I’ve used the lockout, and battery service. Call them, and they bring you a new battery, test your old, replace it, and take it away, for a nominal charge over retail. Great when you are stuck in a parking lot!
Other svcs- depending on your state club, you can get discounted auto, home, and life insurance; a plastic ‘credit card’ spare key for your wallet, services normally provided at your DMV, under much nicer conditions, and with better service; and others.
I’m a fan.
nick
Some headlines:
Ebola may persist in semen for NINE MONTHS after infection
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3273233/Ebola-persist-semen-nine-months.html
Think this is gonna go away????
And extreme OPSEC failure!
“Father-of-three shot dead at home after posting photo of his fiance holding huge stacks of cash”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3272880/Did-Facebook-picture-lead-murder-Father-three-shot-dead-home-posting-photo-fiance-holding-huge-stacks-cash.html
nick
It’s been known for 20+ years that Ebola is airborne-transmissable. Allowing anyone who has been even *exposed* to Ebola to enter/re-enter the US is idiotic. Allowing an active Ebola case to enter the US is indescribably, criminally stupid. Anyone who volunteers to go to Africa to help should be forever barred from re-entering the US.
Oh it gets better:
Ebola nurse Pauline Cafferkey is CRITICALLY ill as her condition deteriorates
“The 39-year-old is only the second patient in the world to have a recorded relapse of ebola and its severity has puzzled experts.”
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3272304/Ebola-nurse-Pauline-Cafferkey-CRITICALLY-ill.html
And worse yet:
“And on Monday last week she met children at Mossneuk Primary School in East Kilbride, South Lanarkshire, to speak about her charity work in Sierra Leone, where she contracted Ebola.
However, it was just hours after attending the primary school that she fell unwell and visited the out-of-hours GP clinic with Ebola symptoms.”
“Experts have begun to realise that, in some patients, the virus can linger in the body in pockets of fluid – such as breast milk or behind the eye. It can then transfer back into the blood stream and reactivate.”
Which, of course, we KNEW because the Dr in NYC had it come back in his eye.
nick
AAA is a great deal. One multi hundred $ tow job and it’s paid for itself for a couple of years. Plenty of discounts on things in day to day life (movie tickets, hotel rooms, rental cars, auto repair) is just gravy.
The closing lawyer on my house missed a lien. When I received a letter from an attorney that my title wasn’t clear I called the closing lawyer. He, of course, lied to me saying he knew about it but forgot to bring it up at the closing. The seller lied, of course, signing the paper that the house was free of encumbrances since he had been served papers just 2 weeks earlier. Trust no one.
The lawyer eventually paid it out of his own pocket (only ~$1000) since it was cheaper than making a claim against his title insurance policy. The seller was destitute since he went on a drug and alcohol spree with the money from the house and ended up in jail.
Gee, you think the ebola virus can hide in your body? Please don’t bring anymore cases here for treatment Obola. Weakest President evah!
+1 on AAA. We’ve been members for years. A real payback for MrsAtoz’s travel. Between mil discounts and AAA, we get our member ship fee back easily.
Two links for the day:
Has the Kepler probe spotted an extraterrestrial civilization? http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2015/10/the-most-interesting-star-in-our-galaxy/410023/
Being paranoid is the new normal. http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/11/if-youre-not-paranoid-youre-crazy/407833/
If your car is new(ish) and still under warranty then it probably has free roadside assistance with towing to your house or the nearest appropriate dealership for service (whichever is closest). Years ago I had VW tow my Jetta 60 miles to the VW dealership from whom I bought it for warranty work when it broke down in the middle of nowhere. Likewise, many auto insurance policies have tow coverage (I just used my wife’s USAA policy to have her car towed 25 miles to our preferred mechanic when it wouldn’t start). Finally, many credit cards (especially gold and platinum cards) have roadside assistance included too. Many people have 3 or 4 way of getting a free tow, but will still call a tow company and pay cash to have their vehicle towed because they’re completely unaware they have free tow service. Now, if you live in the sticks and your tows are frequently going to be 50+ miles then I can see wanting to have a tow service that will cover those sorts of lengthy tows.
Many localities also offer a motorist assistance service that will do things like help you change a tire, jump start your car, you give you enough gas to get you to the nearest gas station. They’re usually tax funded and free. Though, you may have to wait a while for them to show up. They don’t tow, but they do help a lot of people who would otherwise be hoofing it down the shoulder of the Interstate.
Then I would argue it is not AFTER infection, but that the person is STILL infected. Perhaps, “Ebola may persists in semen for 9 months after symptoms cease” would be more accurate. If my body still contains live virus (even if it’s in semen, mucous, saliva, urine, or some other non-blood bodily fluid) then I am still infected. Perhaps the WHO needs to redefine when an Ebola infection is over.
Title insurance is always a good idea for things like that. Many major mortgage companies insist upon it, but few cash customers bother with it. I used to work for an abstract/title/escrow company where we did full title searches and whatnot to issue title insurance or as part of a mortgage loan closing documents.
When my wife and I bought our first home some old $400 debt to Pacific Bell showed up on my credit report. I have the bank statement and canceled check proving it was paid in full, but my mortgage loan officer paid PacBell out of her own pocket. When I asked her why she said it wasn’t worth losing her commission over $400 and gave me some speech about choosing your battles and did I really want to potentially lose out on the house my wife really liked just to save $400 and prove to PacBell that I was right. I figured it was her $400 and not mine so I wasn’t going to engage in a philosophical debate with her about it.
A big advantage of AAA is that the benefits are tied to you, not your vehicle. This has proved invaluable several times to our kids’ (who got AAA cards when they got their driver license). Both have been out with friends when they have locked their keys in their car, had a flat tire, and a dead battery. In all cases our kids’ saved the day with their AAA card. Big peace of mind for mom and dad.
Peering over a rural household wall in Nepal I spied the blind old granny of the household creeping on hands and knees over a mass of dried, sharp, lentil vines to break the seed pods loose.
When enough seeds had been freed they would sweep them together on a flat woven basket (Naanglo) and heave the heap about 2 feet up during a breeze.
Breaking teeth on small stones even in rice that has been through a (stone) mill is a common hazard there.
That’s one reason they eat it using a clean right hand – to feel for the stones.
– to avoid dental trauma as long as possible.
1. Why not just paint everything with a neutral primer, and let any potential buyers opt for their hue of choice? Yes, they might want a discount for their cost of re-painting, but your efforts to repaint are worth something too, and if the colors are not to the buyer’s liking that extra effort won’t net you anything.
2. My auto insurance carrier (Mercury) provides roadside service as part of the policy cost. As DadCooks points out, it’s coverage on the car, but it’s decent service.
3. When I bought my house, I had a final ‘check the last details’ meeting with my realtor at her office, a few days before the scheduled closing. One thing that instantly caught her attention was the lack of a title insurance policy. So she called the title insurance company to ask what was going on, and put the call on the speaker so I could listen in. The woman on the other end said that they weren’t going to lift a finger until they got the good word from the mortgage company. My agent replied “Bitch he doesn’t have a mortgage, this is a cash sale and we have to close on February X. If you queer this deal I’m going to come burn down your office!!!” We got the paperwork. 🙂
“. My agent replied “Bitch he doesn’t have a mortgage, this is a cash sale and we have to close on February X. If you queer this deal I’m going to come burn down your office!!!”
Oh, my goodness gracious! So many micro-aggressions all at once!
I second, or third, or fourth, or whatever, all the good things said about AAA; they’ve been on-site for us many times over the years, for various and sundry crap with the vehicles. We’re also looking, even now, into putting all our insurance into one basket with them up here.
Gorgeous fall day here with foliage near peak; just back from the “combat group” meeting down at the VA; went very well. Our usual VA-employed moderator was out sick so we ran it ourselves, which is no problemo and things actually seem to go better. Not that the VA guy is bad or anything; he’s very good, in fact, and very helpful at times with issues and problems the guys bring up. But we do OK on our own, too.
The comment was made by one of us, ex-Marine infantry in ‘Nam, who works as a part-time peer support specialist for the VA down at their med center in White River Junction, concerning the guys coming back now as increasingly very angry and some of them violent. We shared a few of our experiences with the VA on our own return lo those many years ago, and I opined that since we have recruiters on the front end of our service, we ought to have a lineup of guys on the tail end, too.
Get reps from the Legion, VFW, etc, including actual combat vets, to meet with returnees immediately on arrival and get them directed to anything they need, esp. any help for mental health issues. We’re losing twenty guys a day to suicide and that’s outrageous. The military offers transitional help in the last week before discharge but as our Sandbox vet said, guys see a big stack of paperwork and bureaucratic hassle and just wanna fucking go home as in RIGHT NOW. We ought to be able to see them in the following week and reach out accordingly. We’re not gonna lie to them or bullshit them and we know where they can get help, including from us.
Pretty much gonna be hardcore north-country vets coming to the meetings from now till late spring; other guys bail for Florida every year at this time. Not me; too hot, too many reptiles and bugs, and too many people. Reminiscent, in fact, of other unpleasant places I’ve been.
Ready for the Zombie Apocalypse?
http://www.gizmag.com/tiger-log-cabin-zombie-fortification-cabin/34482/
There may be a few good concepts in there, but they aren’t too evident to my old eyes.
Might be okay for the Zombie Apocalypse, but not a SHTF situation.
Why not just paint everything with a neutral primer, and let any potential buyers opt for their hue of choice?
If you are going to paint with a primer, it’s no more work to paint with a nice flat white paint.
In any case, I’m not sure if painting is worth doing. Talk to the agent you plan to use to list the house. Depending on the market, potential buyers might want to update a lot of the house and painting is not needed.
Computers suck! Just paid the plumber $410 to replace the fried computer controller on one of my hot water heaters with an old style analog controller that will not fry itself when the attic gets too humid or hot. It is such a common problem now that the plumber carries a mod kit on his truck. The water heater is only 2.5 years old but out of warranty.
http://www.bradfordwhite.com/icon-system-intelligent-control
I am replacing the kitchen sink faucet today. Don’t know why they have to put these items in such a tight space. Still working getting the new one tightened up.
Always paint a house before listing. People love walking into a freshly painted home. Just one less thing for them to do in their busy lives of playing on the smartphones nowadays.
Before I sold my last home, we offered it to our neighbor realtor as is for $320K. No bites.
We then put $35K in the house (paint inside and out, new carpet, granite counter tops in kitchen, etc) and sold it for $367K three months later. Had over 40 offers on the place before my realtor screamed and turned his phone off.
Ready for the Zombie Apocalypse?
http://www.gizmag.com/tiger-log-cabin-zombie-fortification-cabin/34482/
This place is not ready. If one of your bunkmates zombifies during the night, you all get eaten in your sleep. Best to have a room to yourself.
When we bought our current home, 36 years ago, it was only 3 years old. The owner very proudly pointed out the freshly painted walls, all a satin white, and some new carpet. Now I know why that was done, to hide their kiddies wall-artwork which started to bleed through a few months after we moved in and the dog pee that had soaked through and into the subfloor where the “old” carpet was.
My Dad laughed, he said he thought he brought me up to know that fresh paint and carpets in a house for sale are almost always red-flags. At a minimum, negotiate the price of paint and carpet into the sale price as a “cash to buyer at time of closing”. YMMV.
Depends on your buyer, and the buyer’s perception of the seller.
If it is a flip, or an investor, I am REALLY cautious about all their “upgrades.” They tend to cover problems, do things half a$$ed, and use cheap stuff installed incorrectly.
If a homeowner, if it’s just cosmetic, that is appreciated. Even if I’m gonna change the colors, at least there is fresh paint to go over. And really, most people want neutral colors.
From a practical standpoint, if you are a smoker *cough* Robert *cough* or you have pets, you will need to replace and repaint every surface in the house to get maximum value. Wash first, then paint. Hard surfaces will probably be ok if cleaned properly.
Carpet is cheap, and installs quickly. You can’t leave old pet stained carpet, smelling of smoke, and expect a buyer looking for ‘move in ready’. You will get flippers, investors, or someone like me that will discount the value, knowing I have to put work in. Cleaning it won’t work, as the odors and dirt are on the underside, and in the pad. Be sure to clean the floor before putting down new pad and carpet. (Easy to rip out the old, and you might get a discount.) At a minimum, vacuum the bare floor, and damp mop.
Cabinets can be cleaned with serious degreaser. The wood will have grease still stuck in the pores, so if you are going to repaint kitchen cabinets, you MUST use a good primer that will work over grease, KILZ is the only one I’m sure will work.
Alcohol will remove old floor wax on a linoleum floor, that will brighten things considerably (if there is wax buildup.)
You might need to do a duct cleaning if they are fuzzy or any odors persist. Look in them and see.
Change central air filters, using good ones, a couple of times while cleaning. That will trap and remove dust that is raised during your cleaning. Run central air on “Fan on” during this time. Run some floor fans to keep the air moving.
There are more tips, but dinner is ready.
nick
The closing lawyer on my house missed a lien.
When I bought my house all the items were settled at closing, in particular, the property taxes. Bzzzttttt, wrong.
I found out several years later when I refinanced that the title company failed to pay the $25 in county property tax. I had the paperwork that indicated the title company was paying the bill. They did not. Of course by the time I found out the amount owed had blossomed to $125 with penalties. None, not one, of the tax bills I received indicated a delinquent balance. When I asked the county tax office why they said it was not their responsibility to inform people that taxes have not been paid. I asked why they even sent tax bills. They said it was the law for current taxes but not delinquent taxes.
I went to the title company. They said they paid. But the records were in storage and it would cost me $50 to get the records. If the title company was incorrect they would refund the charge. If the tax office was incorrect then I would still owe the $50 for the records retrieval. I just paid the past due amount as waiting for the records might delay the refinance. Assholes (title company and tax office).
Now, with no mortgage, I pay my taxes myself. I send a check, registered mail, return receipt. Then I call the tax offices after the checks clear and demand a receipt of the payment and a full listing of the taxes, amounts paid and amounts due for the last 10 years. They balk but I remind them that by law, they have to provide the information at no cost as they don’t send notices for past due amounts.
As Mr. Ray points out, every single goddamn issue needs our constant attention with all these ass-clowns, including Mrs. OFD’s employers (they screwed up her invoices that she sent repeatedly and claimed problems with receipts to the tune of nine bucks or twelve bucks for parking, shit like that, and then didn’t bother to tell her and sat on her pay checks for weeks with no contact; wife has had to badger them and send in receipts over and over again, which they claim they didn’t get, etc., etc. so the most recent check, which she got today, was already two weeks past due. The second one will end up being three weeks past due, which screws up all our bills and our standing with the IRS.) Same deal with the IRS, which claimed we didn’t file our taxes this past year and then immediately froze our bank accounts and her pay checks at the source, only to find out THEY fucked up. Causing us to bounce checks and be late with bills and screw up our credit. Our recourse from either bank or IRS? Zero. Fuck us, basically.
Rinse and repeat all this crap, with insurance companies, school systems, town hall, real estate people, airlines, etc., etc, so every transaction is an exercise in frustration, anger and bitterness, year after year. An occasional transaction that goes right is a cause for dancing jigs, releasing balloons and singing hosannas.
I told Mrs. OFD that from henceforth, she should send in her invoices with all receipts and copies to a lawyer here. Then badger the fuckers every week to make sure they have everything in order and badger them again to issue the pay checks. Weekly. I understand that their office has a revolving door for incompetent office staff and managers and no one knows who reports to whom, etc., etc. but we’ve been dealing with this for years now. None of wife’s colleagues will even squeak about it, as they’re afraid they’ll lose their jobs. So we have to eat shit now in the work force and like it, I guess.
My last full-time permanent gig at IBM: we bought the house up here, and then my workload doubled, and then tripled. My manager laughed and said, ‘now they know you have the mortgage so they’ll pile it on.’ Ha. Ha. A few months later they laid us all off.
Moral: Don’t work for assholes.
Second Moral: Harass the hell outta bureaucrats and office staff after you’ve given them one chance to do the right thing. Post their chit all over the net and make sure it’s seen locally, while skirting libel laws. Hammer the fuckers.
@Ray, your tax office is, as you say, bad. Mine allows me to pay on line at no charge, and to check the account at any time for payments credited, past due amounts, history, etc. Been doing that for over a decade. Never had a foul-up. Guess I am lucky.
Augean stables. Pournelle’s and your office sound like mine. May we see a pre-cleanup photo, please, just so I can mollify Mrs Denis? I’ll get that tidied up real soon now. Real soon. Well, real soon after the garage/workshop, cause I have important stuff to do there first, like find my lathe. So I’ll get the garage tidied real soon now. Really.
Selling/leaving a house – I am in favour of leaving a house clean and habitable, but neutral. Remove old carpets and replace with plain vinyl or laminate flooring, wash and repaint walls in NSM (nice safe magnolia) or matt white. Scrub and polish kitchen counters, appliances and units.
On the other hand, as a (male) buyer, I personally couldn’t care less about that stuff, as the likelihood is I’ll be redoing most of the interior anyway (though I do wish our previous seller had got rid of their carpet – ripping that out was a nasty, nasty job). However, my wife, as a (female) buyer, finds “clean, neutral and habitable” really important. I had a terrible job getting her to think past the surface appearance of the house we ended up buying. No doubt this is a stereotype, but there is some truth to it.
AAA. I’ve been an ADAC (German AAA) “Plus” member for years, and I don’t begrudge the modest membership fees one bit. Their roadside assistance saved one holiday in the south of France from being a complete disaster, when our old VW Passat broke down twice in the space of a few days (it turned out a faulty thermostat valve in the cooling system was causing the engine to overheat). More recently, the “yellow Angel” rescued a major shopping trip which ended abruptly when the car battery died in a shopping centre carpark. In fact, the ADAC is so good that I also use their travellers’ health insurance (good coverage for travel in the US is a must), accident insurance, holiday-cancellation cover and often their car rental portal too. Recommended.
Mine allows me to pay on line at no charge, and to check the account at any time for payments credited
Mine does the same. My problems with the taxes happened before the WEB was king and AOL was the top dog. Even though I can do this online, I still make the tax office do their work and provide me with the information. Unless I have a piece of paper anything I get on the web will not hold up in a court of law. I want a physical copy, with the proper stamps and seals, the name of a person, and most importantly a date on the envelope.
Three years ago my local city took one of my tax payments, addressed to the proper PO Box, and applied the full amount to my water bill. A month later I asked where my tax receipt was and they said my taxes had not been paid and were late. I got a copy of the check and figured out what happened. I ripped the city offices a new one. The tax office still wanted to charge a late fee because they “technically” did not get the payment in time. A presentation to the city council meeting, with names, and much embarrassment for those involved got that problem solved. Plus the problem wound in the minutes for the meeting.
Wow, Ray, you sure have had problems, and have had to spend a lot of time fixing them. My condolences.
One of my pet peeves is that the Post Office often does not put real postmarks with dates on envelopes. Maybe I shouldn’t blame them, because I get some stuff in prepaid envelopes that don’t require a postmark at all. Not only that, but I get more and more stuff with no date on the letter inside. So, I write the “date received” on it before scanning and shredding. Sure makes record keeping a pain. Things are a-changin’. In many cases, there is no original document to establish a proper record. Your methods, while a bit inconvenient, are wise.
DadCooks wrote:
‘At a minimum, negotiate the price of paint and carpet into the sale price as a “cash to buyer at time of closing”.”
I couldn’t have not had my house painted. When I bought it it had walpaper in half the rooms, which was dated, soiled and peeling off. Removing that was a nightmare, and the walls were scarred. I left the 17 year old carpet as is, it was in mostly good condition – much better than the carpet when I bought the place in 1985.
I found out several years later when I refinanced that the title company failed to pay the $25 in county property tax. I had the paperwork that indicated the title company was paying the bill. They did not. Of course by the time I found out the amount owed had blossomed to $125 with penalties. None, not one, of the tax bills I received indicated a delinquent balance. When I asked the county tax office why they said it was not their responsibility to inform people that taxes have not been paid. I asked why they even sent tax bills. They said it was the law for current taxes but not delinquent taxes.
Been there, done that. Cost me $200 in late fees because the County sent the tax bill to the former owner. Even though they had been officially notified that I was the new owner. I went there and they told me that I should have paid the taxes on time even if I did not get a bill. Grrrrr.
Mine allows me to pay on line at no charge, and to check the account at any time for payments credited
Add me to the list of those that fortunately have a competent property tax office. The only thing that I still cannot figure out is why there is no physical title to our house. When we paid it off a few years ago both Bank of unAmerica and our county tax office said that there have been no physical titles for years. What? We have the fancy engraved car titles, why not the same for something a bit more expensive and permanent? So I have the payoff letter from Bank of unAmerica and copies of each year’s tax bill that shows no mortgage holder in the fireproof safe.
Final note: The Post Office is becoming more and more unreliable. We used to be an area distribution point. Something mailed today would have been anywhere in WA, OR, ID, and most of CA the next day. Now all outgoing mail has to be trucked up to Spokane which for some unknown reason adds 7 days to a local letter. So I pay everything online (I have stopped doing business with a couple of companies that are stuck in the stone age).
BTW, I have a long story about how using checks these days is extremely unsafe. The short form is, if I have the bank routing number and the account number I can withdraw any amount I want from your account without any signature or legal order of any sort. You can thank good ol’ Uncle Sammie for that.
When we paid it off a few years ago both Bank of unAmerica and our county tax office said that there have been no physical titles for years.
Same here when we paid off our mortgage. No papers from the county, deed, or mortgage document. The lien is released by the bank and sent to the county to update their records. No real documentation to me except for the letter from the bank.
checks these days is extremely unsafe.
I have been saying that for years. I can send someone a check for a dollar. They deposit the check and write their account number on the back. Boom. I have everything I need to create checks drawn on their account and drain the account.
Unlike credit cards (regulation E), you have to prove you did not write the check. With credit cards the bank has to prove you did the transaction. Getting fraudulent checks removed from an account is not easy and is the responsibility of the account holder with little help from the bank.
Never, never write your account number on the back of a check when depositing. Only write “For Deposit Only” and nothing more. Hopefully your bank does not endorse your account number on the back. If they do, ask them to NOT put the account number on the back.
My credit union uses a different online account number than appears on the check. If some cretin gets the account number from the back of a check and creates checks the number will not work as the online account number will be rejected in the posting.
I have a deed for the land our house is on, but I think I had to apply to get it from the county 35 years ago. Same for more recent land acquisitions, which I also have done. Most of my deals have been a bit outside more common methods (often cash through an escrow company, with no lender involved,) so my experience might not be a good example. When I made the last mortgage payment a few years ago, the lender sent me instructions how to get a deed. There was a few month window, presumably after which I would have to use a different procedure. All I remember is that I had to do it. When I recently took out a new mortgage on the same home, no one asked me for the deed. Apparently I am not trusted to show I own something. That was handled through “proper channels,” whatever those are.
Once again, record keeping is evolving. My recent favorite is being asked if I want a printed credit card receipt. Duh! Of course I do… but I am rethinking that, too. Those receipts pile up, and need some attention and disposition. Someday.
BTW, I have a long story about how using checks these days is extremely unsafe. The short form is, if I have the bank routing number and the account number I can withdraw any amount I want from your account without any signature or legal order of any sort. You can thank good ol’ Uncle Sammie for that.
But you have to withdraw funds to a USA bank, nicht whar?
And, that USA bank is liable for your fraud. And so are you (bank fraud is a felony in any state?). Your bank must be a willing accomplice (allow you to have an account at your bank).
My brother is the President of a Texas bank chain. Somebody emailed his secretary one day and said to transfer $300,000 to an account in Russia. They knew the bankcode and account number. She prepared the paperwork and emailed it back to the depositor who she knew by face. The email address was correct also. The paperwork came back signed. She then prepared the transfer paperwork and decided to call the guy to clarify his address. The guy freaked out and said that he had never emailed the bank. Somebody got into his email and sent that transfer request. My brother said that had she sent the transfer, the bank would have had to eat it.
And, that USA bank is liable for your fraud.
Checks are not covered by regulation E. The owner of the account would have to file a police report and prove to the bank the checks were not written by the account owner.
had she sent the transfer, the bank would have had to eat it
Because electronic transactions are covered by regulation E. The bank has to prove the person made the transfer otherwise the bank has to cover the loss.
With checks the bank is under no obligation to cover losses on checks until a court rules in the account holder’s favor. In actual practice banks will almost always give the money back and close the account. It will certainly take longer than an electronic transaction.
And so are you (bank fraud is a felony in any state?)
It is. And so is welfare fraud and all other manner of money schemes. Very few get prosecuted as it is not worth the bank’s time and money. I could print a bunch of checks, give them to people that are lower on the food chain for say ten cents on the dollar. I may not profit much financially but I will certainly make life hard on the account owner.
And it is possible to open an account, deposit that check, wait a few days until the hold has expired, then pull the money out of the account. A fake ID would help in that adventure. If the amounts are not large then the money may be gone before the account holder notices. Especially if the account is set up for automatic transfer in the case of an overdraft.
There is enough of a reward to make in worthwhile, just as the other scams going around. The targets are few and far between but enough to make it work. Now excuse me while I take this call from Microsoft so they can fix my computer that is suffering major infections (according the caller, Jim from Redmond, with an accent).
And it is possible to open an account, deposit that check, wait a few days until the hold has expired, then pull the money out of the account. A fake ID would help in that adventure.
Most banks are running credit checks on new accounts as a means of identity verification. If you present a fake id to a bank officer to open an account then you will probably be talking to a police officer or deputy fairly soon. At least here in The Great State of Texas.
Most banks are running credit checks on new accounts as a means of identity verification.
Same here. But with the recent hacks of various sites getting a fake id is not that big of a problem as the hackers have enough information to create a fake identification.
Wife’s debit card got stolen, well at least the number. Card was still in her possession. No idea where it got compromised.
When I use a terminal at a gas station I always grab the card reader and jerk it a couple of times to see if it is solid. Many pumps are now sporting card readers with flashing LED’s so that it is more difficult to install a skimmer. Still, I use a credit card as it provides more protection than a debit card and will not drain my checking account.
What all this boils down to: we are caught between the Scylla of the gummint robbing us constantly and the Charybdis of bad actors always very busy finding new ways to steal from us. To be paranoid is to be rational these days.
Still, I use a credit card as it provides more protection than a debit card and will not drain my checking account.
I refuse to carry a debit card. They send them to me and I trash them.
On the subject of check fraud, do see Fred’s latest rant. Checks are crazily insecure. More to the point, they make the US banking system insecure. Just knowing the account and routing numbers let’s someone withdraw money, even if they don’t use checks themselves. I still have a US account, haven’t written a check in decades. But I’m sure the bank would accept one, with any sort of scribble for a signature. Nuts, just nuts. No other country that I know of works that way. Checks need to be eliminated entirely.
But I’m sure the bank would accept one, with any sort of scribble for a signature.
Signatures area not checked. Checks are truncated at the originating bank and only images are then transferred. No one looks at the signature unless there is a problem. And that could take a week to research.
Nuts, just nuts
It is. Worked well back in the 1800’s and the early 1900’s. But with the advent of computers and large scale processing it has become a very insecure system.
Beyond electronic, such use becoming more widespread, what would your alternative solution provide. A cancelled check is your last resource when dealing with payments. Even paying the government should be done with a check as you have a record of the transaction including dates. Such record not being subject to being lost or misplaced by government agencies.
I have never had my checking account hacked or invalid transactions. I did have one check the posted to my account that should not have posted but that was not the result of a hack but a proof operator mistyping the account. That is rarely done anymore with the proper MICR line (which is no longer magnetic ink).
On the other hand, my credit has been compromised three times requiring a new card. My debit card has been compromised once. My wife’s card has been compromised once. Checks may not be very secure but they sure cause less problems than the credit and debit cards.
I refuse to carry a debit card.
Not a bad choice.
I choose differently and use my debit a lot at places that I shop a lot. I only use the credit card when the card is leaving my sight such as at a restaurant. My credit union will restore any fraudulent transactions to my account same as they would for a credit card as the card is a VISA card. Fraud detection on debit cards is fairly good as I found out when my wife’s card was compromised. She had used the card at Walmart in Oak Ridge and then two hours later someone in California tried to use the card. Too far a distance in too short a time to not be a fraud attempt. Plus the amount was suspicious.
I don’t like carrying a check book and using the VISA card is just not as convenient as the debit card. With the upcoming chip technology it should get even more secure.
No other country that I know of works that way.
Maybe so. But on my trips to Europe I have been able to purchase several hundred dollars in train tickets using my card without a PIN or a signature. That hardly seems like a secure system in my way of thinking. Insert card, select tickets, get tickets, withdraw card. No identity verification of any kind. That is nuts, just nuts.
It’s all just fiat currency anyway, whether cash, credit cards, debit cards, checks, whatever, in this global system now. It’s little bits and bytes out there in “cyberspace,” period. Backed by nothing. We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us and the whole house of cards spins merrily along…how much longer, though? Just because the presses can keep printing sheets of fiat currency doesn’t mean the system is stable.
Hard goods is the answer for now. Tools, ammo, seeds, real estate that’s owned outright by a legitimate person or persons, and the major soft good that is still pretty valuable and will become more so in certain areas is knowledge.
Other than that, it’s a floating crap shoot.
what would your alternative solution provide?
Electronic banking: If you make an electronic transfer, it has two accounts attached to it. If the destination account belongs to the organization you are supposed to pay, then you have proof of payment. That’s all the traceability needed.
The same system already exists in the US! The banks certainly don’t write checks to each other. There is no reason not to make it available to individual account holders.
It ties in nicely with the online banking that you already have. There is just an extra option to enter a payment: Name of recipient, bank information, amount. Since the bank information is registered in a directory system, the interface confirms who the account is registered to. You confirm the transaction, and the receiver has the money the next business day. If there is any sort of hold, I am unaware of it.
The system isn’t perfect, of course. For historical reasons, account information can be provided in at least three different formats. Depending on the format, there may only be a single “parity” digit. That means that one typo in ten could yield a valid account, so you really do have to look at the information that is displayed back to you, before confirming a payment.
That’s dumb in modern times; much more efficient and more reliable encodings are possible. Also, banks are slowly realizing that you could just scan the numbers using your smartphone camera, thus preventing typos. Since knowing the recipient’s account number only lets you deposit (not withdraw), this isn’t any sort of security risk – in fact, businesses often publish their full account information on their website.
Bottom-line: the most important difference from US banking is that this is a “push” system instead of a “pull” system. No one can “pull” money from your account – you have to send it to them. I still remember with horror, when cleaning up my mother’s affairs, the number of companies offering to just deduct what they were owed directly from her account, if only I would read them the number over the phone. That simply shouldn’t be possible!
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@Ray: US credit cards in Europe – yes, they are terribly insecure. All CC transactions here are chip-and-pin, so when a US card shows up with no chip and no PIN, well, what do you do? It’s no different in the US; no one really checks your signature there either.
so when a US card shows up with no chip
My card had a chip. Got it specifically for Europe.
Electronic banking
I do as much electronic banking as I can. Only time I won’t is when I have to send money to the government.
I can tell you from experience when an electronic transaction goes wrong it is difficult to get information on the transaction. Each entity in the process blames the other and getting the transactions resolved is not easy. It should be easy.
Also with a check you have a time stamp, physical proof. With electronic when something goes haywire getting the information and the proof is difficult. My bank says they sent it, the receiving bank says they did not get it, my bank says to work with the receiving bank, receiving bank won’t help because they say they never got the transaction. Thus I have to have the transaction reversed which requires that the sending bank have all kinds of paperwork. Should not be that difficult but it is. With a check you have proof of where, and when, the transaction was settled.
Again, this was with a tax payment to a government agency. Apparently when dealing with government agencies access to the account information and transactions is severely restricted.
Ohhh… I misread that as “electronic boinking” and was wondering if sexbots had hit the market without my noticing. If you paid for your sexbot by bank transfer, that would be electronic boinking and banking, and if the company’s database then got hacked and their customer list was made public, you might be truly fucked.
And anyone who ordered up a supposed “sexbot” from an online “enterprise” would probably have a screw loose and when they discovered that the money was gone into thin air, i.e., cyberspace, and the wife had seen the relevant listing on the card statement, one would then be screwed.
@Ray: You’re right, it should be easy. If it’s not, I expect it is because too few people use the system.
@SteveF: Electronic “boinking” – I like computers, but maybe not quite that much 🙂
@OFD: If the wife saw the transaction, and you were then screwed, well, that would have been the whole point, so…mission accomplished?