07:54 – The lead article on the front page of the paper this morning was about the rise of the “Nones”, even in the Bible Belt. In North Carolina, Nones were about 12% of the population in 2007. They’re now 20%, up by about two-thirds. In South Carolina over the same period, the percentage has nearly doubled, from 10% to 19%. And that’s in the Bible Belt. Elsewhere, the percentages and growth rates are even more pronounced. Nationwide, Nones are now the second largest group, only slightly behind Evangelicals, and far ahead of traditionally-black churches (AME, etc.), Roman Catholics, and mainstream Christian (Presbyterian, Methodist, etc.). And the Nones are growing fast, particularly among younger people, while the other affiliations continue to shrink as older churchgoers die off.
The article proposes various explanations, but I think the reason is simple. Few people have ever actually believed this religious stuff, but they went to church anyway because of social pressure and as a way of socializing with friends and neighbors. Nowadays, the social pressure to attend church has pretty much disappeared, while there are much better ways to socialize.
And the trend doesn’t just manifest among lay people, either. Most priests, ministers, pastors, and other church leaders are now non-believers. I remember reading an article from an official evangelical church publication a few years ago that said roughly 70% of Evangelical pastors were non-believers, but continued in their jobs because it was the only way they had to earn a living. They’re frauds, in other words, standing up in the pulpit every Sunday to preach about stuff they don’t believe. That’s true even among the elite. For example, I’ve met a lot of SJ priests over the years, and I’m pretty sure every one of them was atheist. It wouldn’t surprise me if the same is true of the pope. It’s no wonder that people have stopped going to church if even their pastors don’t believe the stuff they’re spouting.
Barbara and I finished final assembly on another batch of biology kits yesterday. Today, I get started on another three dozen chemistry kits.
12:09 – Oh, well. The house we were about to put in an offer for turns out to be a non-starter. No fiber, and Century Link, the cable provider, says his records show that even standard Internet is not offered there, let alone high speed. My guess is the high-speed Internet service mentioned by the owners is of the two-tin-cans-and-a-string variety, probably DSL. The selling agent told our agent that they had “3 MB” Internet service. My guess is he was confusing bits and bytes. So I told our agent to scratch that one and keep looking.
Jesuits. The nicest bunch of atheists one could hope to meet. I recall one particular assignment: “1. Prove the existence of God. 2. Disprove your proof of 1.”
My observation is that a rejection of religion is not the same as being an atheist. There seem to be many folks who reject the churches and priests and ministers and so forth who have not (yet?) rejected the idea of god.
I’ve never bought the idea that Americans are vastly more religious than the rest of us. Belief in the Gospel ought to influence behaviour, but in many cases it doesn’t.
When I played cards on the Internet I often partnered a Christian woman from Sacramento. She knew her stuff theologically, but didn’t mind advising me on how to get laid: she said a lot of women like bondage and that I’d be more successful if I tried that.
With a lot of American Christians their belief is just a thin veneer.
Oh, sure. There are lots of atheists and agnostics in the Nones camp, but there are also a lot of people who claim to be “spiritual”, whatever that means.
But the important thing is the precipitous decline of organized religion, which I think is a very good thing. I suspect that before long the US will more resemble the UK or Sweden, where a few people still go to church but hardly anyone actually believes.
“With a lot of American Christians their belief is just a thin veneer.”
As I said, that’s true everywhere now, and has been for a long, long time, probably hundreds of years. It’s the True Believers that you have to watch out for, particularly if they’re running in groups.
I think that the growth in people who check the None box for religion is part of a larger, more disturbing trend. I think there are a growing number of people who believe in nothing.
Even our host believes in certain ideas. I believe in the following, and suspect I am not alone. I believe in the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights (as written). I believe in the Scientific Method. I believe that freedom means the right to be wrong.
I think that there is now a shocking number of people who don’t believe in any of the things I mentioned above.
For me, it’s not a question of “believing in”. If someone makes an assertion, I require convincing evidence. I “believe in” the US Constitution and Bill of Rights to the extent that they have been the most effective means to date of ensuring people’s freedom. Unfortunately, they’ve been diluted so far since they were written, and particularly in the last several decades, that they’re no longer effective. Was it Franklin who when coming out of a meeting was asked, “what were you people doing in there?” to which he replied, “We’ve given you a republic, if you can keep it.” That’s why I’m an anarchist. Government and religion are both evil. The purpose of both is to control people and limit their freedom as far as possible.
I know where the Pompous Pious Pope of the RC Church stands on global warming and CO2 generation as a causative effect. (Does he get this theology from the Bible or AlGore?)
However, what is doing regarding the replacement of ceremonial candles with revolving, multi-faceted, reflective disco lights?
Anyone else find the link you click to view comments to be sort of counter-intuitive? As you read RBT’s blog post you scroll down. When you’re done reading and ready to view the comments you’re at the bottom of the post. You then have to scroll back up to the top for the link to view comments. I wish there was a link at the bottom of the post as well.
Sorry about the house Dr. Bob. I think you are really going to have to get down in the weeds to make sure internet service is what they say it is. CenturyLink in Vegas is alway lying about the speed and quality of their fiber. Even checking with neighbors.
(As they say on a TV infomercial): But wait…..there’s more.
I read that the salaries of the Grecian clergy of the Greek Orthodox Church are paid by the government as if they were public, governmental employees. However, what I have not read is what Merkel recommends with that specific government spending, outside of government staff reductions in general.
I read that the salaries of the Grecian clergy of the Greek Orthodox Church are paid by the government as if they were public, governmental employees
The Greek government seized the retirement fund (cash!) of the Greek Orthodox Church in Greece several years ago. To do so they had to make the priests employees of the government.
The USA will seize all private retirement funds (pensions, 401K, IRAs) some day in the next 10 to 20 years. They will be “reinvested” in Social Security and Medicare. That will be the lead sign of the end times. I will hopefully convert my IRAs to cash long before that.
Greece needs a financial reboot starting with converting back to the Drachma. The rest will happen slowly and painfully.
Watch out all you old geezers! Obummer is a cummin’ fo yer guns.
The Obama administration wants to keep people collecting Social Security benefits from owning guns if it is determined they are unable to manage their own affairs, the Los Angeles Times reported.
@Chad: regarding the comments link: If you are on the ‘home’ page, you get only the post, with a link to comments at the top. As you scroll down, an up arrow will appear at the bottom right of your screen – that is a quick ‘go to top’ shortcut. Click that, and you are at at the top of the home page, where you can click the comment link.
Or, you can click on the title of the top post (or any post), and the entire post with comments is then displayed.
Either procedure works, just requires an extra click or two.
I can add a link to the comments at the bottom of each post on the home page, if that is what Robert wants. But if you are in the habit of wanting to read the post and then all the current comments, one click of the post’s title will do that for you.
I remember reading an article from an official evangelical church publication a few years ago that said roughly 70% of Evangelical pastors were non-believers, but continued in their jobs because it was the only way they had to earn a living.
That is sad. Of course, many of them are burned out due to people using their preachers and ministers as free psychological and marriage counseling services. Preaching is really a small part of what a preacher is. Always has been and always will be.
But the important thing is the precipitous decline of organized religion, which I think is a very good thing.
My particular variant of Christianity is called The Church of Christ. We were started back in the late 1800s by Campbell and Stone as the original back to the first century church movement. As all human institutions do, we have failed miserably in that mission. Yet, we are still autonomous churches, each under the rule of its own group of elders. I would maintain that the Churches of Christ are so highly disorganized to the point of it being a part of our mission.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churches_of_Christ
I suspect that before long the US will more resemble the UK or Sweden, where a few people still go to church but hardly anyone actually believes.
I doubt this, especially in the bible belt. What we call bible churches or community churches are growing still, many rapidly. My church has 1,700 members show up weekly with well over 2,000 people on the roles. We have had offsite parking for quite a while now and are getting ready to open an offsite church about 15 miles away.
We are known as a very progressive church. To the point of making me uncomfortable many times. We even had one of our homosexual members teach a combined class a couple of months ago which was one of the strongest messages that I have heard in a while. Sad too, he disclosed that he is HIV+ and is still struggling daily. He is 50 and believes that God has a Christian wife for him out there somewhere.
Even our host believes in certain ideas. I believe in the following, and suspect I am not alone. I believe in the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights (as written). I believe in the Scientific Method. I believe that freedom means the right to be wrong.
I think that there is now a shocking number of people who don’t believe in any of the things I mentioned above.
Romney called them the 49 percent in the last presidential election.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/sep/18/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-voters-who-support-barack-obama-a/
“Romney also claimed that the 47 percent of Americans who don’t pay federal income taxes are strong Obama supporters because they are so dependent on government benefits that Obama freely provides.”
I believe that everyone should pay income tax to live in this country. Probably at least 10 percent of your gross income. Probably 10 percent of your gross income at the max. Yes, tithing.
Oh, well. The house we were about to put in an offer for turns out to be a non-starter. No fiber, and Century Link, the cable provider, says his records show that even standard Internet is not offered there, let alone high speed. My guess is the high-speed Internet service mentioned by the owners is of the two-tin-cans-and-a-string variety, probably DSL.
Bummer, you probably can’t stream Netflix on 3 Mb/s DSL. And DirecTV is expensive (I pay $120/month with no HBO, etc but we have two DVRs).
We have two AT&T 12 Mb/s DSL lines here at the office using an Peplink 30 multiplexer. Works well. I also have 24 Mb/s AT&T DSL line at the house which works very well for Netflix or DirecTV downloads.
@RBT,
there might be a fixed wireless provider, I think these guys might work although there doesn’t seem to be a coverage map.
http://www.skybest.com/page/196/locations.html
Or maybe I’m miss reading their stuff.
I see a LOT of fixed wireless to low density areas near cities.
nick
http://www.blazewifi.com/high-speed-internet/North_Carolina/West-Jefferson/
Or this one
nick
@Rick H
I think it’s fine the way you have it. Thanks.
@ Lynn
Barbara and I don’t much care about regular TV. About 95% of what we do watch is on Netflix or Amazon streaming or DVD. I just looked, and the “basic” TV package up in West Jefferson is $45/month, and that’s just a few network affiliates, shopping channels, and similar garbage.
I think we can live with just Internet streaming, particularly since more and more stuff that used to require a cable or satellite subscription is now available streaming. About all Barbara cares to watch on commercial TV is gold, and prospects for that on streaming are looking up. I’ve watched literally nothing that has commercials since about the turn of the century, and even then I watched almost none of it.
or http://www.centurylinkquote.com/north-carolina/west-jefferson
or others
https://www.google.com/search?q=wireless+internet+provider+west+jefferson+nc&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
There is probably a solution, and as for high cost, that’s relative, and a business deduction. Presumably some of your other costs will be lower.
Regarding mail, are you on a Rural route? Will the carrier pickup at your house or will you have to do dropoff?
That would be a concern for me if my business was as heavy a mail user as yours….
nick
@nick
Thanks, but I’m not interested in anything that has a data transfer cap, particularly one as low as Blaze Wi-Fi. Some evenings we have Netflix or Amazon streaming for 3 hours or more, which is 10 GB of data. A lot of those wireless plans are capped at 20 or 30 GB of data per MONTH. I’d be nervous about a cap even at 500 GB/month. And their transfer speeds are also pretty slow.
As far as I can find, SkyBest doesn’t even offer wireless. They INSTALL local wi-fi networks for schools and businesses, but the feed is their fiber optic or cable service.
I spent half an hour on the phone this morning with Century Link. They’re the ones who provide service to the house we just ruled out.
None of the homes we’ve looked at have been RR. A lot of them have mailboxes at the curb, but that won’t be a problem. I’ll just make friends with the mailman.
Sorry ’bout that, most people don’t even know that fixed wireless is available (when it’s available) so I thought I’d take a quick look and throw it out there. Multiple DSL with a concentrator could be an option….
The house seemed like a good fit for you otherwise.
Since you are a pc and net guy, I guess you’ve got some actual usage numbers about where you’d be vs a cap? I’m always a little surprised by where our actual usage is on our wireless plans, considering the kids are often streaming video to a cellular data iPad. It’s way lower than I’d guess offhand.
Before Sprint(tm) got merged and killed Clear, it might have been an option too.
It’s almost like there is a conspiracy or something, to keep the rural and metro providers down.
nick
I appreciate you throwing ideas out there. I sure don’t know everything, but I do know that our usage is way above what’s affordable via methods other than cable/fiber.
Our agent just emailed me to say he was looking into satellite and wondered if that’d be an option. The best offer I found was only 15 mb/s down and a monthly cap of 50 or 60 GB at $130/month nominal. I told our agent we want to focus on areas that have either traditional broadband cable Internet or fiber Internet, ideally both.
Yuck, 50/60GB cap. 10 times that as a minimum. Luckily Cox Cable doesn’t enforce it’s 350GB (my level) cap. Yet.
I liked Cox when I had them in CA. They consistently provided outstanding service and always better speeds than promised.
I certainly can’t say the same about comcast in TX.
nick
Hey all,
Any concealed carriers familiar with Michigan law? I’ll be traveling and carrying, and would like a heads up on any gotchas. I’ve read the .gov site, but haven’t found any particularly helpful local sites.
Are any old ‘gun buster’ signs valid or is a particular form and wording required? [TX has very specific requirements for a sign to be valid.]
How do you know if the establishment gets most of it’s revenue from alcohol sales? Is there a special sign? [in TX this is the “51% sign” and must be posted prominently, visible upon entry.]
Any help appreciated.
nick
Maybe Americans aren’t more religious, but they wave it about a lot more than anyone else. A couple of examples:
– The President (and politicians in general) always make a point of mentioning God, or making some reference to prayer, when they make important speeches. It’s like they don’t understand that the US government is not supposed to promote any particular religion. Listening from an outside perspective, this makes US politicians sound like religious zealots.
– Even in ordinary discussions, religion often takes on a dominant role. Just as an example, consider this blog post on Vox Day’s blog about Planned Parenthood and the discussion in the comments. Now, granted, Vox started it by mentioning religion in the blog title. But the discussion – geez – by the end, it sounds like an old-time revival meeting.
I don’t have any problem with people being religious, but once they reach a certain degree of fundamentalism, religious people become intolerant. On that Vox Day post, a couple of people try to chime in with a different opinion – they are immediately called out as murderers, sinners going straight to hell unless they see the light and convert. What a great discussion. 🙁
Or my Aunt, who knows perfectly well that I am not religious. Which is apparently a challenge. I just got a birthday card from her today, which is one of her annual opportunities (next to Christmas cards) to send me yet another newspaper clipping about how I really need to come to Jesus.
Religion just allows no room for someone to hold a differing opinion. Your religion, if you take it seriously, tells you that you are right, and by inference everyone else is wrong.
What I do miss from my younger days attending a church is the community. For us introverts, it is all too easy to go through life with little contact with other people. A good church community provides a sort of pre-defined tribe, into which one is automatically integrated, and on whose (social) resources you can draw at need. In the non-religious world, there is nothing quite like it.
I certainly can’t say the same about comcast in TX.
What’s that got to do with Texas? Comcast sucks, well the support, just about everywhere.
My phone (Comcast) went out on Thursday of last week. Modem is dead. Tech came out and said modem was end of life and would be replaced with a different model. No big deal.
Then he does some tests on the line. Finds noise. Says it is my data modem and I will have to replace it (I own it). Then when he installs the voice modem he finds the same noise on Comcast’s modem. Then the tech says it is not my modem but filters are needed. Puts filters on the drops from the amplifier that are not part of the XFINITY setup. Still has noise. Now the tech says it is the amp because the power supply is incorrect for the current amp. Tech replaces the amp. Still have noise. Tech replaces the grounding block. Still have noise. Tech says it is an issue at the plant and he will have to turn in a service request.
My data speeds are fine and are running at what Comcast says they should be running. So the noise is not causing a problem. But the tech says if they are servicing a neighbors account and find the noise from my system they will terminate my account. I ask how is it my problem when their equipment is showing the same problem and the tech just said it was a plant problem? Tech says that is just the way it is.
Now my phone calls to outside lines are garbled. Incoming I can hear fine, the person on the other end cannot understand me. Another tech must be dispatched and that won’t be until Thursday.
So I am a week without phone. Comcast’s compensation for the outage: $3.20.
I would change but there is no other provider in the area. Seems Comcast locked up an exclusive deal with the city (in exchange for higher fees paid to the city) to not allow any competition for television. Data and phone are available, but not TV (streaming or live). I cannot get any local TV stations at my location with an antenna because the stations are on the other side of a small set of hills.
The service from Comcast is good when it works, the customer support sucks.
About all Barbara cares to watch on commercial TV is gold
Huh? Gold?
BTW, a buddy of mine, who lives and works in the sticks around Smithville, Texas, has satellite internet and it sucks big time. He has four kids and when they used to come home from school would all watch youtube. He would immediately get bandwidth limited. He is trying to get wireless internet in his area again by grouping his neighbors together to buy a system.
http://www.hughesnet.com/
Golf! I meant golf!
Reminds me of back in the Reagan administration when Poland was just opening up, with Lech Walesa and Solidarity. A bunch of US politicians and businessmen were touring a factory and asked what happened when managers didn’t make quota. They were a bit non-plussed when the tour guide casually replied, “We shoot them.” As the group was leaving the plant, the tour guide came running up behind them, shouting, “Fire Them! Fire them!”
Golf! I meant golf!
Oh good. I was afraid that you meant QVC. While I like the QVC lady on Shark Tank, QVC is sheer torture for me.
I am mostly watching baseball right now, the Houston Astros. I DVR it and then zip through the commercials. I can watch a 3.5 hour game in as little as 45 minutes.
“So I am a week without phone. Comcast’s compensation for the outage: $3.20.”
I am so glad I bought into Ooma. Still going strong for free (+80 overseas minutes/mo). Two lines, too.
I have Comcast for cable and internet. Very fast, very reliable. I’ve had a couple of problems with it, but they got fixed quickly. That was not true in the past, but having Uverse trying to muscle in has gotten them on top of their game.
My comcast internet service drops out pretty reliably every weekday afternoon.
It’s usually back within 15-30 min, but in the mean time, I’m down. No phones either.
nick
att has been pulling fiber all thru my neighborhood, down all the rights of way. I’m hopeful I can get FTTH soon.
No interest in uverse though. Just go to UPS on any afternoon, and see how many returned uverse boxes there are.
I do a/v for a living (sometimes) and hate setting up uverse. It has the worst menu system for tv that I’ve ever seen or could imagine.
Everyone I talk to turns the box in after their trial offer expires.
nick
Of course I mean Uverse as their triple play offering. Their cable box sux rox, and I am happy with vonage.
Hopefully I can get fiber internet without bundling.
nick
I’m inside cooling down.
I’ve been putting away all the stuff I got this weekend.
One sale alone got me:
a bunch of gun cleaning stuff, including 2 boresnakes
nice 5 person tent
dozen extra tent stakes
magellen handheld gps (may use with ham radio and APRS)
2 big panels of camo screen and camo netting
packable rain gear- 2 pullovers and 1 pant
2 hats, one boonie, one camo “operator” style
—raingear and hat to live in truck kit
bunch of tools
chain and a chainfall
colman lantern and 4 bottles fuel
2 sets jumper cables (for 12v battery and solar projects)
4 spools 14ga wire
some hunting camo wear
and some stuff unrelated to prepping.
My other sale stops mainly were for stuff to sell or use in my household, and there wasn’t much.
My misadventure yesterday with the spoiled food ended up costing another $40 beyond what I thought. I had a bunch of shelf stable entre’s that I couldn’t get the bad smell off. They were probably fine inside, but I wasn’t gonna store them again if the cardboard sleeve stunk. Moral of the story is that it can pay to separate and isolate stuff, but maybe smaller partitions would have saved more of the food. I lost about half of what was in the tub. Post SHTF, I’d have pulled off the sleeves, re-rinsed in bleach, and eaten the entre’s, but I don’t see the need currently.
Right now, it’s 107 in the sun, over 100 in the shade, and 36% RH for a heat index of 111 F.
OMG it is hot.
nick
RBT, you should look for a house in Amish country, or whatever the equivalent is down there. You could get great speed on even the cheapest RoadRunner line because you know there’d be no one else on the local loop.
Yeah, but the local loop would be horse-drawn.
-rimshot-
“Don’t forget to tip your waitresses….”
I told our agent we want to focus on areas that have either traditional broadband cable Internet or fiber Internet, ideally both.
High speed internet is the first item that you trade off when you move to the country. Which, West Jefferson appears to be a widely dispersed rural neighborhood of 1/2 to several acre lots. Which is very expensive to bury fiber around the place.
Another ten years, there will be fiber all over the place in rural neighborhoods. In the mean time, you have DSL, satellite internet, sprint wifi, verizon wifi, dial up, mediocre cable services, wireless, etc, etc, etc. 10+ Mb/s cable is a ways off for these places.
“Another ten years, there will be fiber all over the place in rural neighborhoods”
I’ll believe that when I see it. I bought my place in very rural east Texas about 15 years ago (though it was a second home until two years ago) and had been visiting my in-law’s place in this neighborhood since the early 80’s. We are surrounded on two sides by Lake Toledo Bend and the rest is Sabine National Forest. A farm to market road is the only way in or out. There was an analog cable system put in here long about the early nineties, but it went bankrupt after about 5 years and the line is now dead. My only internet connection is via the AT&T cell network, and that was an edge connection until two years ago. I could get satellite internet like my neighbors have, but that has proved to be even worse than my cell connection. Needless to say, I don’t do internet streaming video, and it’s even a bit much to keep a Windows box updated. I would very much recommend keeping on the lookout for a location with good internet connectivity. I still haven’t seen the last season of Heartland and won’t until the dvds come out in the fall.
I am mostly watching baseball right now, the Houston Astros. I DVR it and then zip through the commercials. I can watch a 3.5 hour game in as little as 45 minutes.
Oh for the days when a game was 2.5 hours.
Nick, have you looked at http://www.handgunlaw.us/?
Thanks DaveB, that has the info I need. It has a lot more info than anything on the first page of google results.
nick
Another ten years, there will be fiber all over the place in rural neighborhoods”
I’ll believe that when I see it. I bought my place in very rural east Texas about 15 years ago (though it was a second home until two years ago) and had been visiting my in-law’s place in this neighborhood since the early 80’s. We are surrounded on two sides by Lake Toledo Bend and the rest is Sabine National Forest. A farm to market road is the only way in or out.
Another Texan, cool!
The FCC is working on getting high speed internet access to all rural communities. The FCC defines high speed access as 25 Mbps. They actually have serious money via the USF and are spending it. And, the FCC is going after state laws that limit spreading current fiber systems (TN and NC, I am looking at you!).
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121188/fcc-community-broadband-ruling-could-transform-internet-access
The FCC is working on getting high speed internet access to all rural communities.
The FCC has been collecting that tax for years (since 1996 in the current form), and starting doing high speed internet for rural areas in 2011. The internet in rural school portion, which is older, has been a disaster for many schools. I read about one school district that got a very expensive data-center quality server rack. Totally useless, as they had neither the expertise or money to put it in service or maintain it. What they needed were a few workstations that were stuffed with RAID disks running Windows, and money to pull cable to the classrooms.
When I first talked to our realtors, Amy told me that fiber Internet service was being installed in Ashe County under that federal program. She said the weird part was that instead of starting in the center, with the towns of Jefferson and West Jefferson, and then working their way out, they instead were starting at the edges of the county and working their way in.
If you click on the orange and blue map thumbnail in the middle of this page
https://www.skyline.org/page/199/fiber_to_your_front_door.html
you’ll get a PDF of fiber availability in the area.