Saturday, 18 March 2017

By on March 18th, 2017 in personal, science kits

09:55 – When I took Colin out around 0730 it was 46.4F (8C) with a light breeze. Our high today is to be in the mid-50’s (~ 13C) early this afternoon, with snow flurries and showers overnight and winds gusting to 40 MPH (64 KPH). Another blizzard, in other words.

UPS strikes again. I was expecting delivery of a Walmart order yesterday. When I checked early yesterday morning, the shipment was listed as being on the truck and out for delivery as of 6-something AM. When it hadn’t arrived by the time we’d finished dinner, I checked the tracking information again, only to find that I’d supposedly refused delivery. UPS had never showed up, so there was no way I’d refused delivery. I knew when I saw that what had happened. UPS had damaged the box so badly that it wasn’t deliverable.

Mar 17 10:14 PM
ARRIVAL SCAN GREENSBORO, NC

Mar 17 8:44 PM
DEPARTURE SCAN WILKESBORO, NC

Mar 17 7:50 PM
YOUR PACKAGE WAS DAMAGED IN TRANSIT. WE WILL NOTIFY THE SENDER WITH DETAILS. / DAMAGED MERCHANDISE DISCARDED, BALANCE BEING RETURNED. UPS WILL NOTIFY THE SENDER WITH THE DETAILS WILKESBORO, NC

Mar 17 7:50 PM
YOUR PACKAGE WAS DAMAGED IN TRANSIT. WE WILL NOTIFY THE SENDER WITH DETAILS. WILKESBORO, NC

Mar 17 7:50 PM
SERVICE DISRUPTION OCCURRED / THE PACKAGE WILL BE RETURNED TO THE SENDER. WILKESBORO, NC

Mar 17 11:08 AM
THE RECEIVER DOES NOT WANT THE PRODUCT AND REFUSED THE DELIVERY. WILKESBORO, NC

This was an all-liquid shipment, and I suspect that Walmart packed it poorly, as is their norm. Combine that with UPS’s typical rough handling, and I’m not really surprised something leaked. The shipment contained three 114-ounce plastic containers of Heinz ketchup, two 105-ounce plastic containers of French’s mustard, and four 18-ounce glass bottles of Heinz Worcestershire sauce, all of which are bulk ingredients for the barbecue sauce we intend to make up in a large batch and freeze in quart ziplock bags or canning jars.

* * * * *

11:18 – Speaking of price increases, we use a lot of 9V batteries, which I order in bulk. Barbara was just making up small parts bags for biology and chemistry kits, and informed me that we were completely out of 9V batteries. So I re-placed exactly the same order that I’d placed last June. The price of the batteries themselves was up by 40%, and the price of UPS Ground shipping was up 38%. Geez.

I suspect that UPS and all of the other shippers are being pushed hard by Amazon and Walmart. I know that USPS is just barely breaking even on Amazon deliveries that arrive via Amazon tractor-trailer at local post offices, and I suspect that UPS and FedEx are being pushed just as hard to compete. I think they’re probably trying to make up the difference with huge price increases to smaller shippers.

102 Comments and discussion on "Saturday, 18 March 2017"

  1. Rod Schaffter says:

    I had a friend who ordered sugar (tempted by free delivery, I suspect) from Wal*Mart this past week, and there was no packing; just bags of sugar in a box..literally, as the bags had opened en route. She complained and they sent her new sugar; same deal…

  2. nick flandrey says:

    My ;guess is that they’ve found a way to shift the cost of damaged goods to someone else.

    They are under extreme pressure to reduce shipping weight, and to reduce the material used. They typically have gone too far, resulting in damaged goods.

    I bet that someone else, either internally or externally, picks up the cost of damage, which lets them get away with using less packaging.

    Follow the money.

    n

    (amazon boxes have gotten about as light as they can for most things. They are a bout half the thickness of their old boxes. Ditto for the USPS supplied materials- much lighter weight than the old ones.)

  3. Robert Bruce Thompson says:

    I’ve not noticed any difference in Amazon shipping boxes, and we place an average of six or seven Amazon orders per month. Same thing for USPS-supplied shipping boxes, which we use by the hundreds, about 99% of which are large FR boxes, RR A and RR B boxes, and large PM boxes.

  4. nick flandrey says:

    I’ve got a big stack of them in the garage that I recycle for my own shipping. I occasionally get one from the bottom of the pile that is from years ago. They’ve definitely gotten thinner. It’s very noticeable in the FR boxes. They are almost as thin as pasteboard, although they’re still corrugated.

    Amazon is using corrugated that is thinner than it used to be too, and it’s easier to tear. For some things, they just fold a sleeve around it. It’s not even a proper box. sometimes, even though it is technically the same box (like a 1B) the corrugated will be different.

    I’ve also noticed in other company’s retail packaging that they’ve reduced the size of the flaps. They no longer completely meet in the middle, leaving a gap. This is most noticeable on cases of packaged goods. It saves them a penny but it means I can’t reuse the box. Cost shifting. They save, but now it goes into the waste or recycle stream…

    nick

  5. Robert Bruce Thompson says:

    I’ll take your word for it. I have noticed a change over the past couple years in the USPS boxes, which are the only thing we ship in. The only reason I’ve noticed is that we order 100 of each type at a time, and they ship in shrink-wrapped units of 25. When those arrive, they get stacked, and often there are older ones underneath, just because it’s easier not to shift the older ones, and cardboard boxes really don’t age very much. So I can easily end up with a bunch at the bottom of the stack that are two or three years old. The old boxes were the same weight, though, and differed only in logos/colors, etc. I notice because we do a fair number of shipments via Priority Mail International, and it insists on a total gross package weight AND the net weight of the contents, so I’m always aware of how much an empty box weighs.

    I really wonder why big shippers haven’t gone to shrink-wrapping orders. Even if they intend to box them, that’d stop all the bashing around of loose cans and so on, and would probably eliminate most shipping damage. And they could probably even negotiate with the big shippers to treat odd-shaped shrink-wrapped packages with no outer box as standard boxes, and eliminate the cost of the box itself and packing/sealing it.

  6. nick flandrey says:

    Some things, like tires, ship that way. Off the top of my head I can’t think of another besides tires though.

    Innovations in packaging have made fortunes. Look at the Air pillows, or bubble wrap. They’ve completely replaced foam peanuts, which are universally despised.

    I don’t receive much in the insta-foam pak any more either. (fill a bag with foam, place in box with object on top, fill second bag, place on top, close box, foam expands to fill voids)

    I now have a source for the air pillows, as many as I could possibly want, so I use them almost exclusively. I get bubble wrap from the same place, and some things might get wrapped first if delicate or odd shaped. I even occasionally have to buy bubble wrap when I can’t get enough recycle….

    The key is to pack the box to prevent the items moving thru the cushioning material.

    n

  7. Robert Bruce Thompson says:

    Yep, we get almost no packing peanuts any more, and I can’t remember the last time we got a foam-fill shipment. It’s all bubble wrap and air pillows. The bubble wrap, we recycle for use in international shipments, where weight really matters. Otherwise, we just use shredded newspapers because all of our shipments are in USPS FR or RR boxes. The air pillows I step on to scare the dog.

  8. nick flandrey says:

    I almost always double box, with cushioning between the boxes. If the item is worth shipping, it’s worth making sure it gets there intact.

    And here is a great “hack” that I use almost daily. If your item is a bit too big for a small flat rate box, this free box is just a bit bigger in every dim.

    Priority Mail Box – 1096L
    SKU: O-1096L: In Stock

    9-1/4″ x 6-1/4″ x 2″ Pack of 25 Boxes

    The trick is that it fits easily inside a Flat Rate Padded envelope (same cost as small fr box) so you can ship your item protected by a bigger box at the Sm FR Box cost.

    The same thing works with the FR Legal Size Envelope.

    The postal clerk says to me “That’s the best value right there!” and encouraged me to use the Legal Size ‘hack’. I prefer the padded envelope most of the time though.

    This generally saves a buck or 2 per item.

    nick

  9. nick flandrey says:

    Don’t forget that amazon is doing their own delivery in some areas, with branded trucks and everything.

    And FedEx is using ‘gig economy’ contractors for delivery too.

    They are all exploring ways to cut cost…

    n

  10. Dave Hardy says:

    31 today and heading into the middle and high 30s until Tuesday, when it will drop back down into the teens; we’ll probably lose a lot or most of this blizzard snowpack by then.

    And I see that tRump has met with Frau Commissar Merkel and reiterated that he now supports NATO and the Euros just need to pay more. As if they ever will, so same old, same old. Foreign and military policy looks to be business-as-usual so far, only it will cost us more. Meanwhile boots-on-the-ground in Syria and Poland, and probably one of the Baltics and in Ukraine. We wouldn’t mind, would we, if they had boots-on-the-ground in Quebec, Manitoba, Mexico, Cuba and Bermuda, amirite?

    Cleanup operations around the house and a couple of minor errands today. Exciting.

  11. nick flandrey says:

    Working to get a load of electronics broken down so I can get them to the scrapper, and not coincidentally get my pickup truck back. I’ve got planting to do, but no way to pick up dirt or manure, let alone trees.

    Looks like I did lose my lime tree to freezing. The only shoot is from the root stock, which doesn’t help. THis sucks. The tree was finally producing lots of limes, which I love and use daily. I’m gonna put off pulling it out of the ground as long as I can, but I’ll want to get something in its place.

    back at it….
    nn

  12. Ray Thompson says:

    A reminder to those of you that are beginning to use your powered lawn equipment. Check the cooling fins for blockage. I have ZTR mower and riding mower with the deck removed to use as a utility tractor. Both engines had one cylinder blocked by debris from rodents attempting to build a nest. Feel under each cylinder while running at high speed and if you don’t feel fairly significant airflow time to investigate. Remove the cooling shrouds and clean the cooling fins of all debris. Those engines run hot and blocking any cooling fins does not do the engine any good. May also run the risk of fire.

    I have had to do this three seasons in a row. Both mowers, along with the gas, are in an external shed that is far removed from the house. Thus rodents sometimes make their home in the dry place it provides.

    Also spent half of the day cleaning out the shed and putting some shelves on the walls. This is to get stuff off the floor such as the battery chargers for the power tools and the power tools themselves. Floor was getting crowded and really needed some adjustment.

  13. Dave Hardy says:

    Well, Mr. Ray, it sounds to me like you need at least one working cat there. We don’t see many live rodents here or their nests. And birds landing within, say, six feet of the ground are asking for trouble, too.

    A nice sunny day again; back to the grind.

  14. Ray Thompson says:

    it sounds to me like you need at least one working cat there

    If we had a cat here it would only eat a mouse if it was smothered in ketchup. Shed is 50 feet from the house and any cat here would just ignore it. The small gap at the bottom of the door of the shed is enough for a mouse, but not a cat. A mouse would just give the cat raspberries from the other side of the door.

  15. Dave Hardy says:

    Our shed/studio is likewise 50 or more feet from the house. The cats go in and out when wife is out there. They also patrol the entire yard, and apparently the periphery of the neighbors’ yards, too. And sooner or later a rodent inside that shed is gonna come out for something and the cat/s will be waiting. They can wait a real long time.

  16. Spook says:

    Y’all reminded me of Sweet Sue chicken and dumplings, which I used to enjoy. Need to try that again; not a lot of meat in there of course. Last time I saw the whole canned chicken, I was tempted, but I’m sure I’d waste a lot of something that huge.
    I just finished all but a bit of a 28-ounce can of Keystone beef; it made three big meals for me (with some sides). It’s good enough that I occasionally simply want some of it, even though that reduces LTS. Keystone is in the range of $6 to $8 in local stores, chicken and pork of course cheaper than beef. Wish I could get the 15-ounce cans for the same price per ounce! Even so, I’m accumulating 28 ounce cans, but I fear a lot of waste once refrigeration becomes illegal or something.

  17. Spook says:

    Back to the topic of “exotic” meats…
    I have eaten alligator at a restaurant, plenty good but not a special flavor, really. I saw some frozen at Walmart, I think, but it’s pretty expensive.
    I have had moose and elk, both excellent, and good octopus and squid.
    I don’t like the idea of ‘possum; assisted in a ‘possum autopsy once, clean lab conditions, and it was pretty disgusting.
    I think I’d have to be quite desperate to eat armadillo.
    For extra points, what’s the connection with the novel and movie “Papillon” ?

  18. nick flandrey says:

    Well, got the new battery in the lawn tractor. Ordered new blades for the mower deck. Need to replace the bearings on one spindle but before I order them, I’m gonna check what I’ve got socked away. I’m pretty sure I have the size, but I didn’t bring it home to be sure. Saves $16 if I do. Trying to save every $ on this rebuild.

    Need to hit all the grease fittings, and change the oil. Spark plug looks ok.

    Broke down all the scrap but my driveway is blocked. Neighbor is having some tree work done, and they dropped one across my drive. No big deal, wife went to store anyway so I’m home with the kids regardless of the driveway.

    Fence shows a clear difference where I ran out of Thompson’s water Seal. It works, but needs to be reapplied periodically. Pressure washing the walk, porch, drive, and fence are all on the list…. And hitting the roof with Wet N Forget to kill the black stuff.

    Obviously my back is better today. Got a good adjustment at the chiropractor yesterday, and it made a world of difference. Still not right, but if I’m careful I can function. It would be better to get a couple more days healing, but I don’t have the time.

    One thing about gardening/farming… time waits for no man. Get it in the ground or miss out.

    Taking a break. 92F and 44%RH in the driveway. Feels like 97F. Sunny too. At least the humidity is low. Felt the need to sit in the cool for a bit…..

    nick

  19. Robert Bruce Thompson says:

    “Even so, I’m accumulating 28 ounce cans, but I fear a lot of waste once refrigeration becomes illegal or something.”

    One 28-ounce can is three meals for Barbara and me. It refrigerates/freezes well, but if TSHTF we’ll be feeding more than the two of us plus Colin. So will you, I suspect, or at least I hope.

  20. SteveF says:

    No big deal, wife went to store anyway so I’m home with the kids regardless of the driveway.

    Well, heck, having the kids is no reason not to go get manure. I did that with Selene when she was three and four. We’d go to WalMart garden center (for the cheapest prices) and I’d throw about 15, 40 pound sacks of manure on a cart and then have the kid ride atop the sacks. And I asked her if she knew what she was riding on. “You’re riding on pooooop, sweetie.”

    Some time after that she started joking about wanting to go to the poop store. It took me at least a year to figure out what she was talking about.

  21. Spook says:

    “”…but if TSHTF we’ll be feeding more than the two of us plus Colin. So will you, I suspect, or at least I hope.””

    Around here, we try to be part of a good cooperative group / neighborhood. Several of us socialize, enough, and most at least check in. Even vague acquaintances mostly jump in if there’s some issue or crisis in this good neighborhood.
    Briefly met another neighbor today, not far away. Should be more of that going on:
    meatspace!
    It’s almost a cliche that for some big power outage, everybody joins in with a big pot(s) of stew… I hope. Lots of grill and smoker gear and fuel around here, too.

  22. Spook says:

    I considered a few #10 cans of beans, say, for an emergency meal (or 10) for the ‘hood, but when I looked at unit prices, 15-ounce cans were about the same (on sale, with coupons, at least) so why commit to opening a big can?
    I guess there are some storage efficiencies with big containers, but if a rat chews hypothetically into your #10 can, it’s worse than it chewing into one or two or five of your smaller cans. I just mean that a large container, notably of water, can be contaminated via one tiny hole, whereas one tiny hole in a rack of small water bottles is not such a big deal.

  23. Spook says:

    “”she started joking about wanting to go to the poop store. “”

    Valid lesson in retail, in general.

  24. Dave Hardy says:

    “Felt the need to sit in the cool for a bit…..”

    Slide on up this way, amigo. You can watch me take pot-shots at the snowmobile douchebags.

    ““”she started joking about wanting to go to the poop store. “””

    Take her to the state capitol building in Albany.

  25. Spook says:

    Wow, that link to canned pork brains yesterday leads to a whole mess of joke and gag items…
    Sadly, the brains are an actual edible(??) dish; I had to endure watching some consumed a few times.

  26. MrAtoz says:

    We we’re comparing speedof.me the other day. Mine was:

    Download Speed: 100.31
    Upload Speed: 11.55
    Ping: 23ms ping

    Results while running IPVanish (VPN):
    Download Speed: 91.92 Mbps
    Upload Speed: 9.43 Mbps
    Ping: 41ms

    That is a lot better than I thought it would be.

  27. nick flandrey says:

    I believe the brains are an actual item. Canned armadillo not so much, only because they carry leprosy. In Alas Babylon, they eat a lot of armadillo. Set before the population got infected. Book says they’re tasty.

    Took the scrap to the scrapper. 210 # stainless, 250 # of vcr, 20 # Al, couple transformers, one grocery bag copper wire. $109. About $25/hr for doing what needed doing anyway. $91 of that was the stainless steel btw. VCRs are the same as regular steel, or 3c/#. Tell me again how the world economy is booming?? Just a couple years ago plain steel was 8c/#. It has recovered from 1/2c /# of a few months ago….

    n

  28. Dave Hardy says:

    The world economy is booming and our national economy is rocketing to new records of prosperity and paradise! Things just couldn’t be better, amigo! Not a worry in the world! National Administrator tRump and his genius Cabinet are going to save the world!

    First we’ll start by blathering about a Wall on our southern border but will have nothing much to say about the 20-30 million illegals already here, among them criminal scum and musloid garbage, but I repeat myself, not to mention countless sleeper cells waiting for whatever signals from their masters in Riyadh, Medina, Mecca, Islamabad and Pyongyang.

    Then we’ll keep poking the Russians in their eyes again and put boots on the ground in Poland and Syria and Lord knows where else. We’ll assure Frau Commissar Merkel-Pig that we really do dig NATO but just wish, gosh-darn it, that the Euros could see their way to paying some of the tab.

    At home we’ll send out White House emails daily extolling our own Dear Leader’s efforts, tireless workaholic that he is, and promise that zillions of new Murkan jobs are being created right now!

    So here I am bitching and whining and carping already and they’ve only been in there two months now, whereas if the other creature had gotten the job, we’d be kicking ourselves hard for not building fallout shelters again and buying Geiger counters.

    So there’s that.

    Plus I haven’t seen any APC’s on the corner with a lieutenant barking at us through a bullhorn to start piling up our guns outside.

    So there’s that, too.

    I just wish they’d fucking quit lying to us about everything.

    Like that “official” $20 trillion debt.

    And the financial house of cards that will inevitably topple within the next several years.

    “Jumpstarting” the economy ain’t gonna cut it, nor is creating a few thousand jobs by forcing Murkan companies to keep them here.

    The hard choices are: cut entitlements and/or raise taxes. Cut and dried.

  29. Spook says:

    Chuck Berry

    All other activities canceled.

  30. lynn says:

    “How to Leak Like a Master Persuader”
    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/158474419751/how-to-leak-like-a-master-persuader

    “After the hilarious Rachel Maddow face-plant on live television, with her scoop on President Trump’s 2005 taxes – all two pages of it – the big question in the news today is about who leaked it.”

    “The worst punditry you will see on this question is coming from the people who say Trump couldn’t have leaked it himself because he wouldn’t leak it to a guy who has been his critic for many years.”

    Is Trump this smart and devious ? Sure. He is playing in the Pro league.

  31. Spook says:

    “”First we’ll start by blathering about a Wall on our southern border but will have nothing much to say about the 20-30 million illegals already here, among them criminal scum and musloid garbage, but I repeat myself, not to mention countless sleeper cells waiting for whatever signals from their masters in Riyadh, Medina, Mecca, Islamabad and Pyongyang. “”

    Sleepers will be blowing up buildings and bridges… but, oh, wait, said infrastructure will crumble while all the concrete is poured into that damn Wall !
    Sleepers just watch the crumbling… having whatever is their version of Moxie and pretzels.

  32. Dave Hardy says:

    I believe Mr. Spook has hit on the actual truth of the matter here just now; Sleepers don’t really have to do shit; just sit back with, oh, I dunno, falafel and tea? With a side dish of Sum Yung Boi?

    Sit back and watch us commit slow suicide here, as the empire continues to crumble, and the financial house of cards teeters on the edge…

  33. Spook says:

    When Khrushchev said “We will bury you” I think I understood, even back then (showing my age) he meant that they’d do it as a favor, after we killed ourselves.

    The Rump has slapped Germany, Great Britain, Ireland, Mexico, Canada…
    (who am I leaving out?)… so far…
    The Russians will be the only friend he has left, doing us the favor of a proper interment.

  34. Spook says:

    EDIT

    When Khrushchev said “We will bury you” I think I understood, even back then (showing my age), he meant that they’d do it as a favor, after we killed ourselves.

    The Rump has slapped Germany, Great Britain, Ireland, Mexico, Canada…
    (who am I leaving out?)… so far…
    The Russians will be the only friend he has left, doing us the favor of a proper interment.

  35. lynn says:

    The hard choices are: cut entitlements and/or raise taxes. Cut and dried.

    Nah, they’ll just keep on borrowing money. When one owns the reserve currency of the world, one can get away with many sins. Probably around 4o to 50 trillion of them before the threats become real. And even then, what can the rest of the world do ?

  36. Spook says:

    Could somebody with good data sources and math skills figure up how much money could just be given to each of the illegal border-crossers in lieu of the Wall (per year or life-time, since the Wall is a multi-year project that won’t work until it’s finished)? Bribe them to stay south, or set them up (with, say, a condition that they become citizens, pay taxes on any other income, etc.) for a nice start on life in the US. Gotta be economic reasons for coming to el Norte, so swap that for the Wall (which is gonna fail, right??) …
    Of course, there’s certainly a percentage of immigrants who are coming in for criminal economic reasons, but how many of them are coming to just simply make mo’ money? Make that work to everybody’s advantage, somehow?? Quit bashing the people who are trying to legitimately improve their situation, which used to be the American way?
    Educate them on legal immigration, make it relatively simple?

  37. nick flandrey says:

    @spook– NO

    Rudyard Kipling
    Dane-Geld
    A.D. 980-1016

    It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation
    To call upon a neighbour and to say: —
    “We invaded you last night–we are quite prepared to fight,
    Unless you pay us cash to go away.”

    And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
    And the people who ask it explain
    That you’ve only to pay ’em the Dane-geld
    And then you’ll get rid of the Dane!

    It is always a temptation for a rich and lazy nation,
    To puff and look important and to say: —
    “Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
    We will therefore pay you cash to go away.”

    And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
    But we’ve proved it again and again,
    That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
    You never get rid of the Dane.

    It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
    For fear they should succumb and go astray;
    So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
    You will find it better policy to say: —

    “We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
    No matter how trifling the cost;
    For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
    And the nation that pays it is lost!”

    We have forgotten this to our peril. Perhaps no more.

    n

  38. SteveF says:

    nick beat me to it. Billions for impalement poles, not one cent for tribute.

  39. Dave Hardy says:

    Not to worry; we’ll muck it up again and nothing will get solved.

    Why is that, you ask?

    Because gummint.

  40. Spook says:

    I didn’t quite mean it that way, but I’m afraid that’s how it would work out.
    It’s just that the damn Wall is such a horrible waste which won’t stop very many, and it will take a yuuge amount of money to build it and it won’t even be effective for, what, 20 years (plus the usual construction delays). As each mile is built, there will be tunnels under the previous mile, too.
    Or, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe Reagan was wrong. The Berlin Wall was such a glowing success… and it was so much easier to do that short wall…
    A Wall is just such a waste of resources. It is in fact more useless than some sort of Dane-geld.
    Build bridges (enslaving Hispanics if necessary??) instead of walls ? Sorry, I’m just not seeing the Official Solution being anything but a big money profit for the contractors (including Cemex, for example).
    Seriously, the largest structure on the planet? What could be more stupid?

  41. SteveF says:

    I’m not a big fan of the wall, either. However, it’s more likely to be implemented and to have some effect than any of the approaches I’d actually prefer — I’m pretty sure they would work but they have about 0% chance of being put into place.

    – make life so horrific for illegal immigrants that they self-deport and others don’t try to come here
    – death by torture for any Mexican found with weapons within a mile on either side of the American border; no distinction between soldiers, police, and drug gangs, not that there’s much difference anyway
    – destroy the estate of a random Mexican politician or drug lord any time a crime is committed by a Mexican citizen in the US. They don’t care about the lives of any number of Mexican serfs, but a bomb on the hacienda hits them where it hurts.

  42. nick flandrey says:

    They are already self deporting. The park where the day labor waits is mostly empty now.

    As for walls, we have walls, or kind of a sturdy fence….

    We have been thru this before. We had abandoned the Cali border, not even really checking until you got an hour north at the Marine base. That changed, and we started enforcing the border. Made a difference.

    Will people attack it? yes they always do and despite the self loathing that the left has infected us with, a good chunk of the planet would literally sell a child into sex slavery to come here. Risk rape, torture, death, spend a large sum of money, and do it again and again until they succeed.

    We need effective control of our borders, and if some miles of wall, helicopter gunships, minefields, or autonomous hunter killer robots will do the trick, let’s get started.

    n

  43. lynn says:

    “Grover Norquist: Here’s what happened this week that guaranteed Trump’s re-election and Republican gains in 2018 and 2020”
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/norquist-this-week-guaranteed-trumps-re-election-gop-gains-in-2018-and-2020/article/2617794

    “CBO announced that the repeal bill reduces taxes by almost $900 billion and reduces federal spending by $1.2 trillion over the next decade. This reduces deficit spending by $300 billion over the next 10 years. Thus the CBO, as official umpire, announced that the GOP Obamacare repeal plan may be enacted through “reconciliation,” the process that requires a simple majority in the House and only 51 votes in the Senate. No filibuster allowed.”

    Whoa, I would swear that the major news networks released that the Trumpcare plan was going to cost more than Obamacare. And that no one was going to have healthcare anymore.

    Of course, Congrefs and Trump could just repeal Obamacare. But, that would be too easy.

    And the EMTALA to boot !
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act

  44. Dave Hardy says:

    I agree with Mr. nick; while also deporting those who won’t self-deport, i.e. illegals already here. The border down there should simply be a death zone, but as Mr. nick also says, desperate peeps will find a way to circumvent even that. I dig Mr. SteveF’s third proposal of strikes on the estates and manors of Messican pols and narcotrafficantes for every violent crime committed by an illegal here.

    Furthermore, a disciplined and focused investigation of, and search for, terrorist sleeper cells here and training camps.

    Meanwhile, closer to home, next-younger brother informs me that, sick of the shit going on in the FCOM (former Commonwealth of Maffachufetts), he is looking into moving down to the Pasco and Hernando county areas of the Floriduh Gulf coast. Won’t be able to do it for several years but he’s certainly on top of the research. And my youngest brother is looking to downsize and GFTO also, only not as fah; probably in the Nutmeg State very near the MA line.

    Both parties moving SOUTH instead of NORTH like ME! Can’t take the cold and the ice and the snow anymore! So the first guy is trading that for venomous reptiles, pythons eating gators, and the heat and humidity and bugs. The other one is sort of trading that for tornadoes (there have been several in that area of CT and MA, and a totally libturd state gummint, which doesn’t seem to bother him like it would me or most on this board. But our middle brother and sister are staying put for now in central MA, just a tad north of the Woostah line. Which got hit with a massive kick-ass tornado about 64 years ago. A killer, too. I’ve seen vid footage made on an old Super-8; the sky turned yellow and then black and then all hell broke loose. A few minutes later someone else got some footage as it was twisting away to the east and it was WHITE. The tornado itself, I mean. Very eerie.

    None of that chit up here, though; just blizzards and ice storms. They named this one, the third largest in recorded VT history, as “Stella.”

  45. Dave Hardy says:

    “… guaranteed Trump’s re-election and Republican gains in 2018 and 2020…”

    It could happen, I suppose. And monkeys could fly outta my butt. They make this look like child’s play, an easy romp past a few little difficulties here and there. Forgetting the RINO traitors, the Tea Party clowns, and the hardcore Left elements who whittle away behind the scenes and prepare for a long drawn-out shit-fest war over the next four to eight years. Some of them appear to be readying for 1930s-style street fighting in the cities this summer. So as to, of course, deliberately provoke repressive measures. And the MSM is totally in their pocket. And then we have the Soros organization. Very, very busy, all the time.

    I hope to hell I’m wrong, all wet, an idiot, but I fear not.

  46. Dave says:

    So my better half is watching The Walking Dead now. Now I’m wondering if she will suddenly be the one to decide we need to prep for the zombie apocalypse, and I will be the one to think she has gotten carried away.

    Ironically, I tried watching the first episode a year or two ago and concluded I couldn’t watch it due to the fact that it did not have Mila Jovovich.

  47. Dave Hardy says:

    I had started watching some episode or other several years ago and gave it up as too implausible. Recently I’ve watched it through, IIRC, six seasons on Netflix. I will continue just to see Negan eventually get his comeuppance and who else he murders. Plus he’s got a great line of evil chit.

    As for prepping, I just have to keep hammering on the obvious stuff here with my own better half; storms, power outages, and local goblins. She doesn’t think anything bigger and worse will happen; major normality bias there. Gets her nooz from MSM and FaceCrack memes and the like-minded libtard friends’ bubble there. They exchange crap back and forth of how tRump is Hitler and Bernie Sanders is God Manifest, etc., etc. She’ll sometimes exhibit a show of oppositional reason to some of them, but not often. How can someone so friggin’ smart be sucked into that crap?? She went to Brown and McGill and has a master’s degree and ABD doctorate. Both kids are college-educated…oh wait…never mind….

    …I’m college-educated, too, but I worked my way through most of it, going part-time and nights, and also worked as a TA during two grad school capers. I also read widely outside the Conventional PC Wisdom curriculum. Then again, I was a soldier, factory worker drone and a street cop, so that might tend to color my perceptions just a tad.

    Hey, it’s 01:30 here; OFD is off to the Land of Nod…

    Pax vobiscum, fratres et sorores; tempus fugit irreparabile…

  48. Miles_Teg says:

    ABD doctorate???

    Isn ‘t the dissertation the major/only part of the doctorate?

  49. Miles_Teg says:

    DH wrote:

    “…probably in the Nutmeg State very near the MA line.”

    Isn’t there a sayng about jumping out of the pot and into the fire?

    Yeah, I know we realise it, but why doesn’t he?

  50. Ray Thompson says:

    I’m not a big fan of the wall,

    A better option is to make living in the US illegally very unattractive. As in no benefits and no money. Heavily fine those that hire illegal immigrants. Deny all health care even if they are dying. No handouts from any charitable organizations. Basically make it such that coming to the US will result in starvation or worse. Enforcement would cheaper than a wall.

  51. SteveF says:

    A better option is to make living in the US illegally very unattractive.

    No civil rights. No human rights. Illegal immigrants are a non-uniformed invading army and as such have no rights at all.

  52. MrAtoz says:

    A better option is to make living in the US illegally very unattractive.

    I couldn’t agree with you more. The FUSA is a welfare state. It will be harder to change that with all the ingrained Libturdians than building a wall completely around the FUSA. The only thing President tRump can do is slash the gummint as much as possible. Starve Leviathan to death.

  53. Dave Hardy says:

    “Isn ‘t the dissertation the major/only part of the doctorate?”

    It’s traditionally the last part of it; prior to it the candidate has done more graduate course work or independent research of some kind, depending on the area/discipline, and probably also some teaching. The dissertation itself is usually a book-length deal that has to be defended before a committee of senior faculty. That’s the general outline; YMMV in whatever country. Mrs. OFD and I had both done the course work and grad research, plus languages in my case (though I was never gonna be done with them), but never finished our dissertations. Me, because I lost interest in playing the game anymore and saw no relevant job opportunities outside of part-time gypsy gigs out in the sticks somewhere w/shitty pay and no bennies. Her, because she left state gummint and decided to go in a more independent direction.

    “Yeah, I know we realise it, but why doesn’t he?”

    He does not concern himself with politics very much; more into the economics and this or that professor who’s come up with a great plan for saving the country, only no one in a position of power is interested in the plan and never will be. Normality bias to a certain extent for day to day, but worn out and tired and depressed (cancer survivor), and also resigning himself to the collapse of the empire. He doesn’t seem the least bit interested in prepping for anything other than taking better care of himself in terms of diet and exercise.

    “Enforcement would cheaper than a wall.”

    But not as visible and dramatic and spendy in a big way, because this is Murka and we do things in a BIG way here, got that, hombre? Meanwhile, about those 30 million illegals already here…. Yeah, I thought so. Crickets. Makes ya go hmmmmmmm…..

    “The $10M missing serial comma…”

    I heard about that. Then, scrolling down, I see the pic of Frau Commissar Merkel-Pig listening to tRump with headphones, presumably because she doesn’t speak English. I wonder if she speaks Russian?

  54. ech says:

    And they could probably even negotiate with the big shippers to treat odd-shaped shrink-wrapped packages with no outer box as standard boxes, and eliminate the cost of the box itself and packing/sealing it.

    I doubt it. You can’t stack stuff packaged like that in a trailer or cargo container for rail or air freight.

  55. nick flandrey says:

    Read the phrase in question and immediately saw the issue. Can’t believe it made it thru any kind of contract talks…..

    n

  56. Miles_Teg says:

    As far as I know down here in Oz PhDs and some (originally, almost all) masters degrees were 100% by research. In the late Seventies a friend did a Master of Engineering Science at Adelaide University, which was part coursework, part thesis. If he’d done a Master of Engineering or PhD it would have been 100% thesis.

  57. ech says:

    My masters was a non-thesis one, an MEE, not MSEE. At the grad school I went to, your MS thesis was usually a warm up to the Ph.D. dissertation.

  58. Robert Bruce Thompson says:

    I thought that I was at the tail end in 1975-77 at RIT, when it was still common to get a Masters in a hard science before pursuing the Ph.D. Nowadays, I understand, almost all hard science Ph.D. programs start straight out of undergrad.

  59. Ray Thompson says:

    “Illegal immigrants are a non-uniformed invading army bugs.”

    Fixed it for you.

  60. OFD says:

    Mine, of course, would have been first an MA in English, focusing on medieval and Renaissance writers, mostly epic poetry; that was to lead, basically, on to a PhD in Medieval Studies sponsored by the departments of English, History and Philosophy at another major northeastern university. I had the course work done, a remedial accelerated summer course in Latin done, and was looking for a dissertation topic. But my first marriage was on the rocks, mostly my fault, but with a huge assist from my then FIL. And my own father was dying slowly from early-onset Alzheimer’s back in MA, mostly due to environmental factors early in his life and then again much later.

    Besides Latin, both classical and medieval, I was studying Old English, Middle English, Old French, Old Norse, and medieval Italian. They wanted me to get going with German, too, and that whole PhD deal would have likely involved further study and research in Europe and taken another six years. I saw no job openings in my field anywhere for a straight married Caucasian male Christian war veteran anytime soon, and I was heartily sick and tired and fed up of the super-PC atmosphere on the campuses even then, a quarter-century ago!

    Thus, believing, finally, that the game was not worth the candle to light it, I bailed out and went to work at New Jersey Monthly magazine for a while, and then after separating from my wife, moved back to MA and back into IT in 1995. In the intervening 22 years, I’ve actually worked in IT full-time a total of ten years, the rest being part-time, minimum-wage, contract, or unemployed. Pathetic. Dismal. Humiliating. Those are words that have come to mind repeatedly. You’d think a smartypants liberal farts grad like me would have seen the writing on that wall, too, but nope. Kept hammering away it, to not much avail.

    Well, as they say, no fool like an old fool.

    All in all, that’s a pretty good job of beating myself up; and once I get through two VA med appointments tomorrow I’ll be in an even better frame of mind by tomorrow night.

    One good thing, at least from my POV, is that yesterday and today I may have kept my next-younger brother from bailing outta the RC Church and getting sucked into some demonstrative Protestant denomination.

    (one further edit) Another good thing is that I quit drinking 7.5 years ago before it would have most certainly killed me. Not a drop since, and I don’t smoke, drink coffee or tea, sing, dance or go to the movies, either)

    And I’m working on some cleanup scut work here and then messing around with another PC and operating system later. Pipedreams is doing the B’s this month; having already done Bach, they’re doing Ludwig van tonight. VPR Classical streams the program now up here so I’ll crank it up. While assembling a bicycle rack and cleaning up my little “fort” of books and magazines and papers and junk in the living room. Also have a dry-fire laser “blue” gun to try out now.

    Still a gorgeous sunny day with blue skies, too. Same tomorrow, the weather liars claim.

  61. Miles_Teg says:

    Here in Oz you get an “honours” degree and then do either a masters or a PhD.

    In arts and science this involved getting an ordinary degree (BA or BSc) then doing a year (Feb to Nov) of advanced coursework and a small thesis. You were then fully qualified to start your masters or PhD. Some people dropped out of the PhD and were given a masters if their thesis was worth that.

    In engineering (my elder nephew) and law (his ex-wife) you didn’t do an extra year, they just gave you an extra or substitude subject in your final year that was tougher. I think you were then qualified to do a ME, MEngSc or PhD (him), or LLM or PhD (her) directly.

    Some people do a masters first, then a PhD. Others just go straight for a PhD.

  62. Miles_Teg says:

    “One good thing, at least from my POV, is that yesterday and today I may have kept my next-younger brother from bailing outta the RC Church and getting sucked into some demonstrative Protestant denomination.”

    If Protestantism was good enough for Luther, Calvin and Arminius it’s good enough for me.

  63. SteveF says:

    I don’t … drink coffee or tea

    Now that’s just crazy talk!

  64. OFD says:

    “If Protestantism was good enough for Luther, Calvin and Arminius it’s good enough for me.”

    It wasn’t so much “good enough” for them; they started the whole ball rolling. And a good case could be made that both Luther and Calvin were twisted psychopaths. Then, once that dam broke, Protestantism itself broke down into more and more denominations, sects and cults. I’ve lot count, outside the so-called mainstream. But I can walk into a Roman Catholic church in Singapore and be able to easily follow along with the mass just as a person from there could come here to St. Joseph’s Co-Cathedral and do the same. The brother I mentioned likes the Protestant hymns and gospel music, and is fascinated by the charismatic energies. He dislikes having to pop up and down a dozen times during the mass, with his back, knee, shoulder and neck issues, derived from decades of competitive power weightlifting.

    “Now that’s just crazy talk!”

    Call me crazy. And I’m about to get crazier and dump the Moxie, Dr Pepper, pretzels and some other junk that I eat. Probably try a version of the Atkins 40 plan and get out much more often for walking, cycling, hiking, snowshoeing, x-c skiing, and the canoe. Wife was also trying to lose a few pounds for her Jeopardy! taping a week from Tuesday in LA. I’m no good to anybody with chronic back pain and sciatica and carrying a load of muscled fat around my waist and stomach. Yes, it’s hard fat; you can punch it and it’s like hitting a heavy bag. Hope I can dump it soonest.

  65. Miles_Teg says:

    Luther, Calvin and Arminius (a good name – the original also fought against Rome) recovered the gospel and church from the captivity of simony and man made rules.

    Sola scriptura!

  66. SteveF says:

    And a good case could be made that both Luther and Calvin were twisted psychopaths.

    As contrasted with various luminaries of the Catholic denomination? Richelieu would spring to anyone’s mind, as would “Kill them all” Arnaud-Amaury, but a large fraction of the popes would surely fit the bill. Notably including a number who callously not only broke promises of mutual assistance with the eastern centers of Christendom but in fact sent crusaders to attack Constantinople and Thessaloniki. And pitted European princes and nations against each other, careless of the loss of life so long as temporal threats to the church’s power were crushed. And quashed scientific innovation, exploration of other cultures and philosophies, and any form of artistic expression which might lead the catholic church’s serfs to thinking for themselves.

    The church’s leaders were effective in maintaining power for a millennium and a half. Who but a bunch of twisted psychopaths could have managed that?

  67. lynn says:

    I thought that I was at the tail end in 1975-77 at RIT, when it was still common to get a Masters in a hard science before pursuing the Ph.D. Nowadays, I understand, almost all hard science Ph.D. programs start straight out of undergrad.

    Dad got his BS Chem Eng from TAMU in 1960 and his PhD Chem Eng from Princeton in 1963. No masters.

    I have been told that the profs generally make a student get a masters first if they are unsure that the student can finish their PhD. Three of the PhDs working with me do not have masters (Dad being one of those), the fourth does.

  68. OFD says:

    “Sola scriptura!”

    Nope. Fidem, ratio, et scriptum

    Not for nothing did we have the martyrs, the Scholastics (and scientists), and the translators.

    “As contrasted with various luminaries of the Catholic denomination?”

    I wasn’t discussing the long line of psychopathic Roman Catholic “luminaries” at the time; our Oz correspondent blurted something I found a trifle erroneous and kept it to the Protestant psychos for the moment. Otherwise, the rest of your points are well taken, of course. And rarely if ever discussed in catechism classes. What else would we expect? The same sorts of people gravitate to positions of “leadership,” power and wealth in the political realm, as we have had ample cause to notice recently. They’re eminently fallible and sinful human beans like the rest of us, but kicked up a few notches. Once, when I was working at that magazine in NJ, one of my wiseacre colleagues and I took a lunchtime swing through a nearby used and rare bookstore. He was quite amused to find a book entitled “The Bad Popes.” Whaddya want from 2,000 years and a billion people? Gonna be a bunch of bad apples. We got one right now in the See of Peter, a neo-Marxist in thrall to a homosexual cabal in the Vatican. He is most emphatically NOT the Pope, anyway; Benedict is still the Pope. And no, I’m not a sedevacantist. The See is not vacant.

    I can only think of two ways to disrupt such “leadership,” by shortening or cutting entirely their purse strings, or the noose and firing squad. Short, of course, divine intervention.

  69. lynn says:

    Luther, Calvin and Arminius (a good name – the original also fought against Rome) recovered the gospel and church from the captivity of simony and man made rules.

    Can I add William Tyndale to that list ? One of his great accomplishments is that he upset the church so much that they dug up his bones and burned them after he was murdered by the church. William Tyndale is the grandfather of the King James Bible.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale

  70. OFD says:

    Yes, Tyndale, and the forty or so scholars assembled by King James VI. Himself a scholar but what an ugly and perverted little man.

    The KJV is one of the three founding texts of this country, in terms of what almost everybody who could read at least a little and knew them accordingly; the others being Shakespeare to varying degrees, and mos def Pilgrim’s Progress. This has most emphatically been a British Protestant country but that’s all passing away now, for better or worse.

  71. Miles_Teg says:

    James VI/I was a weird bloke. When one of his kids got married he was there the next morning asking about the wedding night’s proceedings.

    Face it Dave, the Bishop of Babylon on the Tiber leads a corrupt and illegitimate organisation. The Reformers were right to split from the apostates…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whore_of_Babylon

  72. lynn says:

    James VI/I was a weird bloke. When one of his kids got married he was there the next morning asking about the wedding night’s proceedings.

    That was not that unusual back then with all of the emphasis on wedding night virgins.

  73. OFD says:

    “Face it Dave, the Bishop of Babylon on the Tiber leads a corrupt and illegitimate organisation.”

    Yeah, the one inside the Vatican, a cabal of commies, musloid apologists and symps, and an insidious group of homosexual intriguers. Benedict is still the Pope, and this guy is a complete disaster, which was/is intentional. Hey, the Church has been around for 2,000 years and gotten through a lot worse with some really bad popes and cardinals and bishops and priests and nuns. No chit. There’s a billion human beans! Some of them are gonna be bad eggs. The majority are humdrum regular human beans. And some of them are genuine saints.

    As for the “Reformers,” they were right to address the abuses and complaints and problems but to split entirely? And then to split again…and again…and again…and it’s still going on until the logical end of it is a Church of One. Or guys swinging rattlesnakes and copperheads around and drinking strychnine. Or David Koresh in his little kingdom, shirttail handing out, pacing back and forth and hollering and reading from…guess what book of the Bible?? And Pastor Bob Tilton selling his prayer cloths on the tee-vee.

    The Reformation, so-called, was the greatest tragedy of Western Christendom; Luther, Calvin and Henry VIII were evil men and they wrought havoc for centuries to come.

  74. lynn says:

    The Reformation, so-called, was the greatest tragedy of Western Christendom; Luther, Calvin and Henry VIII were evil men and they wrought havoc for centuries to come.

    Sorry dude but, I have got to disagree with you. The early church was a bunch of independent churches with several preachers roaming about (Paul and the gang) bringing in new people by the thousands and telling everyone how to behave. There was no head dude over all of the churches. Peter and James were incredibly influential with all of the churches but they rarely left Rome and Jerusalem.

    Luther started us on the road back to the early church. He did not get very far but he did get us started. Not such what Calvin started us on but he did go down his road a bit too far (predestination).

  75. OFD says:

    Peter was the first head of the Church, the first Pope, and from him an unbroken line, for good or ill, for 2,000 years. Both he and Paul were most likely executed by the Romans in Rome at roughly the same time. And James briefly led the church in Jerusalem.

    I have zero use for Luther or Calvin.

    Much better appreciation for Augustine, Anselm and Aquinas. Also Dante.

  76. Miles_Teg says:

    If Benedict dies will the current commie Pope become legitimate?

    Yeah, I know that there’s evil in all organisations, but how is it that evil men found their way to the top so often in the Roman Apostate Church. I’m thinking of the Borgia popes in particular, but also “Hitler’s Pope”. I don’t think all popes were bad though, John XXIII seems like he was a decent bloke. He may even have been a genuine Christian.

    Didn’t Luther get excommunicated by the Whore of Babylon at the time? Hard not to split after that.

  77. Miles_Teg says:

    Lynn wrote:

    “Luther started us on the road back to the early church. He did not get very far but he did get us started. Not such what Calvin started us on but he did go down his road a bit too far (predestination).”

    The Roman Apostate Church in 1517 was so deeply mired in error and evil works that even Luther, Calvin and Arminius weren’t able to correct all the errors. The first two stuck with fatalism (aka predestination), amilenialism and so called infant baptism. The last mentioned tried to correct the enthusiasm for predestination but ran out of time. His followers were condemned by a kangaroo court known as the Synod of Dort, and one was executed on trumped up charges of treason.

    No, I don’t have much time for Calvinism.

  78. Miles_Teg says:

    OFD wrote:

    “Much better appreciation for Augustine, Anselm and Aquinas. Also Dante.”

    And St Bernard of Clairvaux.

    Your evidence that Peter was the first pope?

  79. OFD says:

    See the words of You-Know-Who to Peter concerning the rock.

  80. SteveF says:

    Voldemort? That You-know-who?

    Please note, OFD, that the history and scripture you cite come from the catholic side of things. The history and scripture of the Eastern christian sects are somewhat different. It is not universally agreed that the seat in Rome is the origin of the church (unless by “church” you mean the Roman Catholic Church and its descentants) but it should come as no surprise that the history presented by the RCC shows the RCC in the best and strongest possible light.

  81. Miles_Teg says:

    Christ referred to Peter’s confession of faith, not to him personally.

  82. OFD says:

    ” It is not universally agreed that the seat in Rome is the origin of the church (unless by “church” you mean the Roman Catholic Church and its descentants) but it should come as no surprise that the history presented by the RCC shows the RCC in the best and strongest possible light.”

    The origin of the Church was Bethlehem, Nazareth, Galilee and Jerusalem. After the 70AD debacle at the hands of Vespasian and Titus, the “center” or “HQ” moved to Rome, tentatively at first, as there were already other well-established churches in Antioch, Armenia, etc. But that’s where Peter and Paul ended up, and then Constantine’s mom and he, along with the Council of Nicea clinched the deal. Several of the early popes were martyred there, too, along with countless others, particularly under the reigns of Nero and Domitian.

    “Christ referred to Peter’s confession of faith, not to him personally.”

    There has been a chit-ton of arguments on this for centuries, and I would only be, of course, giving the Roman Catholic view. It also gets into apostolic succession. Peter was the first leader of the church and the bishop of Rome, where he died, thus where Roman primacy started, and his successor, Linus, ditto. And after Judas, the rest of the apostles chose Matthias as his successor, just as Paul chose Timothy. This was accepted practice until denied by the Protestant “reformers.” It also gets into issues of translation and interpretation, and the sola scriptum folks love to get into all that, splitting hairs, ad tedium, ad infinitum..

    I’ll stick with the Roman Catholic view, which more and more modern Protestant scholars are coming to accept.

  83. Robert Bruce Thompson says:

    I’ll start thinking about this just as soon as someone establishes that Christ was a historical figure rather than just a myth. There’s really no credible evidence that he ever existed. I mean, the Roman records mention Barabbus and even include fingerprints and booking photos.

    As far as I know, no historian or archeologist who doesn’t have a religious agendum has ever established the historicity of Christ. That’s pretty odd, when you consider the number of other minor characters whose historicity has been firmly established.

  84. OFD says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

    I note that the Christ myth theories tend to have emanated from old and long since discredited Soviet communist academics, and a minor scattering of other scholars with Jewish surnames. In general, most scholars now agree on His historical existence.

  85. SteveF says:

    The internecine church wars are interesting from perspectives of history, power politics, and manipulation of public opinion.

  86. OFD says:

    Start with it real early, too; it was going on in Jerusalem back THEN.

  87. lynn says:

    Start with it real early, too; it was going on in Jerusalem back THEN.

    Apparently the Jews versus the Gentiles argument was a hotbed of controversy for over twenty years. Most of the Jewish Christians said that the Gentiles had to become a Jew first until Paul took Peter and James by the ears and said “No!”. Even after that acceptance by the Christian leadership, there were still people upset about it.

  88. nick flandrey says:

    And I’ll add that the Christian Bible still has the Jewish holy books in it, even though the god of the old Testament seems to have nothing in common with the god of the New Testament…

    n

  89. OFD says:

    The OT God is much more hands-on, but Jesus, in fulfillment of those Scriptures, becomes our intercessory, with the Holy Spirit. And since then, the emphasis has been on Him, the BVM, and the saints; i.e., more human. And the language itself changed, from Biblical Hebrew and Aramaic, to Greek and Latin and then the rest of the human languages.

  90. nick flandrey says:

    So what changed? They really are like two different beings, with two completely different ways of relating to humans. And just saying “Jesus” is an armwave. Why would god change so much as to send a son and redeem humans, who he was content to smite, order around, and F with previously?

    n

  91. Robert Bruce Thompson says:

    “Why would god change so much as to send a son and redeem humans, who he was content to smite, order around, and F with previously?”

    About 2,050 years ago, SteveF had a heart-to-heart chat with him, and told him that he’d better straighten up and fly right or he was gonna get his ass kicked.

  92. SteveF says:

    God’s a manic-depressive, nick, with mood swings on a period of centuries or millennia. There’s no evidence to disprove this theory, so it must be true.

  93. SteveF says:

    About 2,050 years ago, SteveF had a heart-to-heart chat with him, and told him that he’d better straighten up and fly right or he was gonna get his ass kicked.

    Well, there’s no evidence to disprove this theory…

    And it ties in nicely with my theory that there is no god greater than I…

  94. nick flandrey says:

    Then it MUST be true…

    n

  95. OFD says:

    “So what changed?”

    Well, for one thing, you have very different writers and chroniclers between the books of the OT, Apocrypha and NT, who have different perspectives and axes to grind. So our perception at this late date is also different. What changed historically? Roman occupation of Judea and installation of puppet quislings. And the Chosen People were unable to overcome it. They never did, in fact, and it took more centuries for Christianity to overcome it and become global.

    “Well, there’s no evidence to disprove this theory…”

    Even if there was, the New “Journalism” sez that we can simply disregard it. We’ll go by what they call “alternative facts,” and suchlike, i.e., make it up as they go along. If we question it or oppose it, we’re whatever demonic flavor of the month for them, rayciss, sexist, whatever.

    So Omnes ave Steve!

  96. Robert Bruce Thompson says:

    Heh. Barbara bought a sign to hang near my desk. It reads “Bob Ave”. When I thanked her for the Hail Bob sign, she tried to claim that “Ave” wasn’t Latin, but an abbreviation for “Avenue”. I asked her if that was true why there was no period.

  97. OFD says:

    Correct. But maybe y’all can petition the town authorities to so name your long driveway accordingly.

    Also funny; this street is named Cherry Street. I can attest there ain’t no cherries on this street.

  98. lynn says:

    Also funny; this street is named Cherry Street. I can attest there ain’t no cherries on this street.

    Did George Washington ever visit there ?

  99. Robert Bruce Thompson says:

    Our driveway isn’t that long. It’s less than 45 yards from the edge of the road to the garage doors. Or, as I told Barbara, optimum range for #4 buck.

  100. OFD says:

    “It’s less than 45 yards from the edge of the road to the garage doors. Or, as I told Barbara, optimum range for #4 buck.”

    From the edge of Cherry Street to our back door is about 45 FEET, or optimum range for the 9mm’s. From the edge of Cherry Street to our front door is optimum range for a meat cleaver or rolling pin.

    “Did George Washington ever visit there ?”

    The real question should be, where didn’t that bugger visit? Anyway, the answer is “possibly,” as he did visit Lake Champlain in 1783.

Comments are closed.