09:50 – There was some discussion yesterday about whether food in #10 cans is suitable for individuals and small families, or only large families or groups. The real answer is that it depends both on the types of food and on your budget.
Meats and other highly-perishable foods are best stored in smaller containers. Even a large family or a group may not consume an entire #10 can of meat in one meal or even one day. Yes, there are various workarounds, such as keeping a large container of pottage simmering for days or even weeks at a time, but it’s best to store meats in smaller cans that can be consumed in one meal. Most of the canned meats in our deep pantry are in 14- or 15-ounce cans, like Costco chicken. The largest cans of meat we stock are Keystone Meats 28-ounce cans.
But shelf life isn’t an issue for the stuff we store in #10 cans. A lot of that is long-term bulk staples from the LDS Home Storage Center: flour, rice, sugar, macaroni, spaghetti, non-fat dry milk, and so on. A lot of it is also stuff from Augason Farms: powdered eggs, butter, and cheese, TVP meat substitutes, Morning Moos milk substitute, and so on. All of these have rated shelf lives of several years sealed (and in reality much longer), but the important part is that their rated shelf lives after opening are typically one year or more. That means we’ll never need to use the contents of any of these #10 cans quickly because we’re concerned about spoilage.
The other issue is cost. A #10 can is expensive. LDS Home Storage Centers sell a limited selection of bulk staples in #10 cans and retort bags, and they sell basically at cost. But those #10 cans are still costly. For example, on our last Costco run, we bought 100 pounds of flour in 50-pound sacks. It cost $0.25/pound. The LDS HSC sells a 4-pound can of white flour for $3, or $0.75/pound, so the packaging cost is twice the cost of the food itself.
LDS also sells 7-mil foil-laminate Mylar one-gallon bags and oxygen absorbers for about $0.50 each in quantity 250. Each one-gallon bag holds about 6.67 pounds of flour, so repackaging 100 pounds of flour requires 15 of those bags, at a cost of about $7.50. One hundred pounds of flour in #10 cans from the LDS HSC costs $75, versus about $32.50 if you package your own. Your cost is $42.50 higher in the #10 cans. Or, another way of looking at it is that $100 buys you about 133 pounds of flour in #10 cans versus about 308 pounds of flour if you repackage it yourself.
In fact, if you’re really on a tight budget you can skip the bags and simply use free 2-liter soft drink bottles. Your $100 now buys you 400 pounds of flour, perhaps a bit less if you add a $0.10 oxygen absorber to each bottle.
Of course, repackaging it yourself requires time and effort and makes a mess, and neither the bags nor the bottles are rodent-proof like the #10 cans, but everything is always a trade-off. Don’t underestimate the convenience factor. It’s a lot faster and easier to buy the flour in #10 cans. They come in cases of six. All you need to do is drive to your nearest LDS HSC, pay for the stuff, and load it into your vehicle. Haul it home, unload it and transfer it to your pantry, and you’re finished. The time required is minimal, and for many people that’s more important than the higher cost.
I’m discovering that with decreasing time left on the planet and various physical ailments, I’m more inclined to go for the convenience and saved time. A lot of days here seem to be ‘devoured by locusts,’ as the saying goes (from Jerry Pournelle over the decades) even though I’m laid off and semi-retired. Seems like every stupid little project I undertake ends up consuming twice or three times as many hours as I’d anticipated. And each stupid little project seems to need yet another tool.
Sun and blue skies again today; we need a chit-ton of rain ASAP. This is nice, and all, but I’d rather have a week or two of heavy rains. More leaves turning orange and red, Autumn is icumen in…etc.
But one more week of summuh!
Yes, it is very convenient. The people at the storage center are nice people and will even help you load the stuff into your car. The only thing I’ll do differently next time, and there will be a next time is download the order form, fill it out and print it before I leave.
Also, I stocked up on lids for #10 cans when I was at the LDS home storage center.
I keep telling you all…
All you need is gallons of cheap vodka, cigarettes, and tampons. With those three things you can barter for anything you need.
🙂
From the Look, Ma: No Net Department:
https://outlandersystemsblog.wordpress.com/2016/09/15/system-failure/
If the net goes down, so does a chit-load of other stuff in world civilization. Pixel addicts will jones like crazy. And economies will crash and burn. Maybe not ours, not totally, but it would really suck. SSH’ing into your work machines would be gone; as would a lot of power utilities, phone companies, and goods distribution.
What’s even funnier is that although we can say or they can say that the Chicoms or Russians flipped the kill switch, us Dirt People would never really know for sure; could be some lone basement hacker somewhere or it could be our own regime.
That would be a good little SHTF project; set up a secure BBS via Linux (or Windows, using Telnet and a virtual modem) on a RaspberryPI or packet radio config.
Off shortly to the vets group; see what fun we can have.
The ‘Net will never go down because I will “Fife” myself if it does.
Here’s the link to Schneier’s original article. He sends out an email newsletter with most of his articles and observations monthly. Sign up at https://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram.html
https://www.lawfareblog.com/someone-learning-how-take-down-internet
Strange that the outlander guy uses the ham radio analogy but fails to mention the ham radio resources to do exactly that, BBS over the air.
I’ve got the old TNC (more than one actually) but getting up on HF hasn’t happened yet.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ham+radio+packet+bbs+software&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
nick
I was hoping to get to the range today, but people insist on buying stuff from me. I guess I finally found the right pricepoint for selling electronic pipettes….
n
Hello?
Goodbye.
Eeerrriiieeee……..
Thought there might be a problem, even AOL went down for some time today.
But I guess no one made any strong assertions today that needed comments 🙂
I’ll go– ARs rock and AKs suck. Glocks rule. HK is overpriced crap. Ford beats Chevy any day of the week.
n
(ha ha!)
I’ve posted twice today but it tells me that the posting is a duplicate.
I’ve never owned an AK, and have put probably less than 500 rounds through one. My impression was that it was a loose piece of crap. I did own an H&K 41 (G3) until I lost it in the lake. It’s a truly excellent rifle, other than it scoring the brass. The Glock has never been born that’s even remotely the gun that my Colt Combat Commander was, before I lost it in the lake.
Glocks rule.
🙂
Anybody have a Glock 21 to compare to the Colt? I’m not joking.
I wouldn’t even buy a Lightweight Commander because I want steel instead of aluminum. No way I’d buy a plastic pistol.
Without a doubt. Sloppy, loose, inexpensively constructed, and barely more accurate than a slingshot. And essentially indestructible even with abuse and complete lack of maintenance by poorly trained, poorly motivated, halfwit inbred conscript troops.
I like the AK-47. The AK-74 not so much. The M-16 family not at all, though my understanding is that they’ve improved since the last time I had to use one.
I sold my CC many years ago. Great gun and fit me well. Never handled the G21. Some say the frame size drives them to 1911’s.
Ford beats Chevy any day of the week
What about the other six days in the week?
Both AR and AK rifles have much better versions these days; given the choice, I’d prefer the AR running 6.5 Grendel. The Ruger Mini-30 runs AK ammo and is Murkan-made and can be modded to a certain extent, like with a folding stock, handguard, light, optic, sling, etc., or so I’ve heard. Fits in a backpack or gym bag, so I’ve heard. Nice vehicle gun, so they tell me.
The Glock G40 running 10mm is a pretty hefty deal and will drop bears and Caddy engines. And I like the CZ P09 with 20 rounds of 9mm.
As for Ford, Chevy, whatever, I’m not really gonna care; all I want is an older diesel 4WD w/stick shift in good shape, no rust. And no computer gizmos on it or in it.
Autumn seems to have arrived here today, a week early.
“”SHTF fishing? It won’t be with poles, flies, lures or spears – all much too labour-intensive. It’ll be with traps, nets across watercourses, car batteries and copper sweeps, and with black-powder pipe bombs or dynamite. Unfortunately, it will also be biotope-devastating and probably largely non-sustainable as a result.
Those who live at the sea coast will be better off – crustaceans, molluscs and seaweed for the gathering – like during the Irish famine of 1848. Those inland starved, while coastal folks got by, but the Irish largely went off eating fish and seafood ever after.””
I fear this might be correct. Like wild game, fisheries will be wiped out by hungry people who are desperate or out of control. Domestic food animals could all be eaten quickly, too.
On the other hand, having fishing and hunting skills will be more crucial in some areas which are not subjected to industrialized mayhem.
I can also see fishing a creek or a shoreline as an add-on activity for patrol and scouting. Check for invaders and bring home a meal…
As I said about nature watching and such, fishing tends to focus your attention more precisely and intensely and broadly on what is going on around you.
I hear that fish traps and whatever you call the static lines from the bank with be the best way to feed yourself. Set the lines, come back later. Not much time for standing around casting if things are bad enough that you need to fish for supper.
Probably not gonna see me out on the great open plane of the beach, fishing in the Gulf. Might find a pond on someones farm, or a little lake, IF I can swing a retreat location….
n
Man, all that inflammatory comment and only a few fairly rational responses? What are the interwebs coming to?
FWIW, never shot a steel framed 1911 style pistol. I LIKE the striker fired pistols. Straightforward, simple design, few pieces and no hand fitting. They point naturally for my hand too. Plus the capacity and lighter weight, they’re a no brainer for me.
Very little to go wrong on an AK either, especially vs the AR. There are other platforms that use the 7.62 that might merit a look, and some better versions of the AK.
For that matter, there are ARs chambered in 7.62….
nick
Oh, I forgot — 9mm vs 45!
“Like wild game, fisheries will be wiped out by hungry people who are desperate or out of control.”
Read pretty much any historical reports from an occupied city or protracted conflict, or in modern times read Selco, or the stuff coming out of Syria; they ate all the GRASS. They cut all the trees. The animals are LONG gone.
nick
A gift from the daughter…
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/178d38ujEF8hToj3hbCZYPyh4m-QDX6UihfYTdT30M4M/edit?usp=sharing
“”I hear that fish traps and whatever you call the static lines from the bank with be the best way to feed yourself. Set the lines, come back later. Not much time for standing around casting if things are bad enough that you need to fish for supper.
Probably not gonna see me out on the great open plane of the beach, fishing in the Gulf. Might find a pond on someones farm, or a little lake, IF I can swing a retreat location….
n””
Limb lines and jug fishing have their usefulness, but I actually think I can put more meat on the table with some intense rod’n’reel stuff. Of course, with zombies chasing you around, you ain’t gonna fish well… but you can’t haul in a trot line very well, either. I’m just saying that fishing is a skill that can serve nicely, as can hunting, and it should be in any prepper’s bag of tricks. Meanwhile, get out and look around and learn how to get food with “sporting” techniques. Those sorts of skills also translate over to limb lines, seines, electro-fishing, or dynamite. Practically speaking, just tossing out a baited hook and walking away requires much more luck than skillful casting.
Unless you can “think like a fish” no technique is gonna work well!
I’m just basing most of this on having tried assorted static fishing whilst “wasting my time” nearby casting and hunting fish, and knowing where and how I got supper.
But yeah if you are on a major battle front, ain’t no fishin’ there. Of course, how likely are you to pop a squirrel in the woods if said woods are full of hunters, hunting for whatever and whoever, either? At least you have the gun (or slingshot?) at the ready if you are actively hunting!
Thanks guys. I learned that certain foods (well dried, mostly) can be kept for a year, say, after opening a large can, #10 or otherwise. I’ll look into at least a few things, probably TVP in particular.
I also had considered a #10 can of cooked beans (Bush, as I recall), quite cheap in the ordinary supermarket. A couple of those (or whatever appropriate number) could make one a neighborhood hero for a couple of days. Good cost / benefit ratio, for sure. Even if I open it and eat a couple of servings, solo, in a pinch, or after it has “expired” such a can would not be a horrific waste if a crisis comes along.
[For “The Walking Dead” fans: Did Carl actually eat that entire #10 can of chocolate pudding, himself, sitting on that roof? With that zombie nearby, since it could not reach him…]
“I’ve never owned an AK, and have put probably less than 500 rounds through one. My impression was that it was a loose piece of crap.”
Your impression would be correct. Decent options for shooting the ubiquitous 7.62x39mm cartridge are the Czech Vz58 military rifle (I have a select-fire one, but you deplorables won’t be allowed that) and the CZ527 sporting rifle. Both are accurate to the limits of the cartridge, cheap and reliable.
Glocks vs 1911 pistols. I wouldn’t spend my own money on a Glock, as I don’t particularly care for them or for polymer pistols in general. In 9mm, I’d go for a CZ75, SIG P210, Jericho 941 or BHP over a Tupperware gun any day (for .45 ACP a CZ85 or a 1911).
On the other hand, for someone who literally *doesn’t* care for their guns, a Glock might be just the ticket, as they – not unlike like the AK 47 – are notable for their reliability in spite of little or no maintenance.
On the gripping hand, people whose opinions I respect think a Glock 30 is about the ideal carry gun, concealable, 45acp, reliable, and cheap, so if you do wind up using it, and the police confiscate and fight you on getting it back, its no great loss, versus say, a nice 1911.
And that’s a good point. Two glock pistols for the price of one nice 1911.
n
(or one pistol, a few extra mags, 2 holster options, some range time, and a case of ammo.)
A gift from the daughter…
Sweet! A Daddy’s girl always gets it right.
The cops screw up another raid. A snitch details where a meth lab is. Don’t they even follow up and do some basic recon?
Police said they thought they were targeting a methamphetamine operation and instead forcefully entered a couple’s condo with five children inside.
Mesa County and Grand Junction SWAT members surrounded the condo and broke down the front door and destroyed windows as they breached the house.
A person who previously lived at the address was apparently the suspect officers were looking to arrest.
The police don’t even seem to do basic “police work” any more. They’re replacing the damage, but will be protected from a lawsuit, as usual.
My wife has a Glock 9mm she bought before I met her. She liked it. I like the .45 better because it puts a bigger hole in the target. Both work well and are easy to shoot and easy to maintain.
I like rifles better than pistols, and I prefer hunting rifles for accuracy. When I shoot at something, I want it to go down on the first shot. That said, I know the AR well enough to take it apart, clean it, & put it together without thought anymore. I think that it’s good for what it was designed for – putting a lot of lead down range by people who don’t know a lot about them.
I’ve never fired an AK (never had an opportunity or a drive to go looking) and don’t know that I would care to, except that I’d fire anything I could get my hands on if it were required. Necessities drive.
I designed a replacement door frame intended to turn a front porch into an abattoir. Oven a dozen 12ga shells embedded in the frame, aimed here-n-there, #4 below waist level and buckshot above that. Intended to go off if the door was smashed open, or on electrical signal from inside the house.
Never built it, of course, and never never took it to the sandpit for testing. That would be wrong and dangerous, as well as louder than a thunderbolt striking near you. (Or a Thunderbolt, likely enough, though I’m a bit young to have seen them in action.)
The door boobytraps may eventually become very useful, so working on designs now is a good thing; I approve! Speaking of suchlike things; back in ancient times when I was doing my lone-ass Buford Pusser imitation in a small rural Maffachufetts town, I once stopped a biker in his car. Knowing with whom I was dealing, I was extra careful and had my service REVOLVER out and aimed at his head and told him NOT to open his door. Because, of course, he had a sawed-off 12-gauge tucked into the inside of the door aiming rearward, with a string from the trigger to under his steering wheel. That would have taken ol’ Buford out from the waist down.
Not too long before that phase of my life, we had some nifty little booby traps to watch out for from Mr. Charlie and his friends; my all-time fave was the double bouncing-betty.
Consider how an entry team stacks…Bet that would be a good place to put something.
Or some sprinkler heads, a small pressure tank, a solenoid, and some fluid. Simple ammonia would likely send anyone on the porch running away in panic, since they don’t know what it is, it smells pungent, and it breaks up their mental plan. Some other fluids might be effective too. In TX this is specifically covered in the criminal code, so don’t try it here.
Google mythbusters and coffee creamer for an interesting example of a fully dispersed fine powder and spark….
In a book I read, someone made a big degaussing coil in the doorframe of their data center, so seized harddrives were rendered harmless.
I’m still thinking 100ft of spectra cord or stainless aircraft cable, and a line launcher type spud gun for those pesky low-ish flying rotary wings…..
A couple hundred ball bearings and a firm floor on the porch would mess up someones entry plan too.
Of course long before getting into any sort of illegal boobytrap, you could just fortify things enough, like Whoopi Goldburg’s apartment door in that thief movie. If they can’t get in, they can’t bother you…..
nick
Agreed; there are many devices and techniques for disrupting unwanted visitors. Up here we’re mainly concerned about smash-and-grab local goblins and druggies for now. To that end I’ve almost got the rear perimeter fence done and I have solar-powered motion-detector floodlights up, plus one webcam so far, connected to the main (Mint) desktop running Cheese. I’ll get more advanced stuff going later with more webcams and a dedicated machine.
I need to look into a line launcher “gun” anyway for stringing antenna wire up into the trees here.
“I need to look into a line launcher “gun” anyway for stringing antenna wire up into the trees here.”
Consider a sling shot.