08:52 – I got one of those obnoxious robocall IRS scam phone calls yesterday. I understand that most of these scam calls and most spam calls in general originate overseas, and I wonder why the feds aren’t giving them higher priority. I mean, we have SEAL teams operating internationally, kicking down doors and killing terrorists, who are a minor annoyance compared to these phone spammers. Why aren’t the SEAL teams tracking down and killing phone spammers instead?
Every morning I make the rounds of a dozen or so of the top prepping websites. I’m not sure why I bother. There’s seldom any new material worth reading, and it seems that most of these sites are simply attempting to monetize what material they do have at their readers’ expense.
Those attempts often come in the form of Amazon affiliate links, which I consider a questionable activity. You won’t find any affiliate links on this site or in the book, because I consider them a conflict of interest. People who click on them don’t pay any more, at least in theory, but I always wonder what motivated the authors to choose these particular products. Was it because they’re actually good products or because the author gets paid for recommending them?
Then there are the recommendations for outrageously expensive products like freeze-dried foods and MREs. I just read an article on one site that recommended one of those so-called 4-person/1-year food supplies and talked about what a bargain it was for only $5,000. Geez. At 1200 calories/day, it’s actually more like a 2-person/1-year supply, at $2,500 per person. And most of the food is bulk staples that can be purchased elsewhere at a small fraction of the price. But even that’s not as bad as the sites that recommend stocking up on MREs, which cost about $10 each for a 1200 calorie meal. Is anyone really crazy enough to spend $30,000 for enough MREs to feed a family of four for a year?
And it continues with stuff like $70 flashlights, $180 knives, $260 solar ovens, $500 solar battery chargers, and so on. All fine, assuming your audience can drop $100,000 on food and other supplies. Most people can’t. And, from what I can tell, most of these recommendations are thinly-veiled paid endorsements. The company sends the author a $260 solar oven or $500 solar battery charger. The author writes a glowing review, and wink-wink-nudge-nudge isn’t expected to return the product. To my way of thinking, that’s unethical bordering on fraud.
That’s why you won’t see me even using Amazon.com affiliate links, let alone accepting bribes in return for favorable reviews and links. I’m sure a $70 Streamlight is in some sense “better” than the $3.50 flashlights I recommend (and buy in quantity myself with my own money). But it’s not twenty times better in any respect, and if I were going to spend $70 on flashlight(s) I’d much rather have 20 of the $3.50 models than one Streamlight. I know from experience that those $3.50 flashlights are just fine. I’ve been carrying them myself for a couple of years now. I did a drop test with one of them, holding it over my head and dropping it on concrete ten times. It still worked, and didn’t even suffer any cosmetic damage. I have it in my jeans pocket right now. That’s the same flashlight that I (intentionally) ran over with my SUV. Again, no damage at all and it still works perfectly. Same deal on other stuff. The $35 Baofeng HT works fine, so you won’t see me recommending the similar $800 Yaesu model that one prepping blogger recommends. As Jerry Pournelle says, this inexpensive stuff is Good Enough.
Indeed.
This is true at the gun-related sites, too; they’ll have ads for this and that product and be recommending attachments, peripherals, toyz and other stuff that only someone with a large slush fund of cash could buy.
33 here today and heading to 47, with sun and blue skies. A VA appointment to go to and then some firewood stacking and online courses, how exciting.
There are some things that are worth the money. And there are real differences between the cheap items and the more costly ones.
Since you mention the BaoFang vs Yaesu….
I own both a Baofang uv5+plus and a Yaesu FT 60 (not the one you mentioned, the one I would recommend as a step up basic HT). I’ve had the 5+ for 2 years, and the FT for a few months. The FT is about $175, the 5+ about $35. I use a radio several times a week on average, and carry it in my car about every other day, so I’m using them. I have used hand held radios extensively in my work. I have a good idea of what a radio needs to be to survive full time real world or outdoor use.
The 5+ is a perfectly good radio, and an excellent cheap entry to ham radio. It is reasonably well built, and performs fairly well. I recommend it as a first radio. You will probably want to spend some additional money on programming cable, extended battery pack, and a better antenna, but you will do that with the Yaesu too (except for the antenna.)
That said, there is a world of difference between the two. Physically, the Yaesu is tougher, built from better materials, built to a higher standard, more water proof, performs better, and in general is a TOOL rather than a TOY. Yaesu as a company builds radios for commercial, gov, mil, and BF does not. Yaesu has a service and support infrastructure too. Yaesu is a serious company with a long history of building useful durable capable products. BF, not so much.
This argument/discussion happens in many forms on every forum and every topic that involves physical things. Yes, the cheaper thing may get the job done. No it is NOT equivalent to the more expensive thing. Go to a car forum and you will inevitably find discussions about the merits of Harbor Freight tools vs SnapOn. Or Ryobi vs Milwaukee cordless tools. Or Frigidaire vs Haier for freezers. Or Mercedes vs Hyundai. In almost every case the partisan poster picks the cheapest and the most expensive for the sake of the argument, and ignores that there is a step up in quality available at a much cheaper price.
So here’s my take. If all you can afford is the absolute cheapest thing, and you have reviews that say it works, buy it as it is better than nothing. If you are buying the most expensive or most prestigious thing simply because of price or reputation without regard to utility, you are throwing money away but that is your prerogative.
Most casual users of a thing will benefit from moving up to the next “tier”. Professional or full time users are better off spending more money to get the thing that is best value for money, and built for serious users without going all the way to the “best”.
If that doesn’t make sense, think of it this way.
What are the consequences of failure of the cheap thing?
If you are at home during normal times and your flashlight fails, you get another out of the drawer and go back to looking under the bed for the missing sock. If you are on an entry team, kicking a door in the middle of the night and your weapon mounted flashlight fails, you or a teammate or an innocent person is potentially dead. It should be a no brainer to buy the best light you can afford, with the best reputation for performance and durability if your life depends on it.
If you are a homeowner who occasionally needs a wrench for tightening a nut on the kid’s bike, Harbor Freight tools will be fine, and if they break or strip out the nut, no one dies. If you are a shade tree mechanic, and your Craftsman tool fails, you go to the store and exchange it. If you are a pro and your SnapOn tool breaks, you call the dealer who comes to your shop, while you continue working, to exchange it.
If you living or your life depends on it, buy quality. If you won’t be able to easily replace it, buy quality.
WRT radios for preppers, BF will get you started. It will work fine in your home, yard, or light careful field use. If you break it or lose it, you can order another from Amazon. If you think you’ll be hiking, working on your homestead, exposed to weather, or the radio is your lifeline and connection to help or team, OR if you think you won’t be able to easily replace it, spend the money on a professional grade radio. You DON’T need a top of the line ham HT with APRS, GPS, D-Star, Echolink, etc to communicate during and after SHTF. You do need a radio that will be durable and dependable in the environment where you will actually USE it.
Bologna, hamburger, and steak will all fill your belly. Which one would you eat by choice?
nick
Yup. Just learning the radio stuff with the Baofeng for the time being; if and when I get more involved in radio communications and any critical activities, I will certainly look at upgrades accordingly. Nice post.
I did have kinda spendy lights on the weapons I lost a while back, though. I haven’t done any entry team stuff myself in a long time but I am given to understand that gremlins have taken up this sport recently on a wider basis. So I would not want any lights to malfunction in the dead of night around here.
I don’t like the attitude that seems to pervade the forums across the interwebs where you essentially have to either buy a Yugo or a Porsche as if nothing else exists in-between. There are plenty of steps up (and down) in quality and features as you move across the price range.
I agree with Nick. If a life is literally going to depend upon it, then only the best will do. If you can toss it aside and just grab another out of a drawer, then the bargain bin item is probably fine.
Depends on the item. I agree about the $30 Baofeng UV5 models. They’re nice little radios, but they’re built to blister-pack standards. They look and feel like the Midland FRS/GMRS radios I also have.
The step up is the Baofeng UV82, which costs only $6 more and is built to commercial standards. You can feel the difference. It feels like a tool rather than a toy.
The other very good thing about the Baofeng HTs is that they’re programmable across the full range of frequencies that they support rather than being limited to authorized ham frequencies. All of my BF UV82’s are currently programmed to T/R on FRS, GMRS, Marine band, and NOAA weather radio channels. I obviously wouldn’t use them on non-amateur frequencies unless things get really bad, but if they do there are a lot of advantages to the interoperability the Baofengs provide.
As to other things, which flashlights would I choose if my life depended on them? The $3.50 Cree Ultrafire models. I have three of them on my person at the moment (well, I would if I were wearing my hoodie). Which is more likely to fail me or be lost: one $70 Streamlight or three Cree Ultrafires? The answer is obvious. I can’t justify paying $210 for three of the Streamlights. I have too many other places that I need to allocate funds to. But spending $10 on the three Crees is a no-brainer.
RBT, can you provide the exact model or link to where you bought them?
There seems to be a whole range of flashlights described as Cree Ultrafire. They are also widely described as counterfeits or copies, and on the deal sellers, it seems that you will often receive a similar but not exact version of what you thought you were buying.
BTW, Cree manufactures the LED not the flashlight. The flashlight maker is still responsible for things like the durability of the switch, and longevity and efficiency of the boost/regulation electronics.
nick
You don’t need to spend hundreds to get well made reliable and bright flashlights. My EDC is a pelican penlight, my work lights are Streamlight penlights. They are mechanically sturdy, bright, have good color rendering, and efficient battery use. Weapons lights should be purpose built for that use due to shock and vibe considerations, as well as mounting systems. I’ve bought and used the Costco 2 and 3 packs when they were on sale. The best had Cree leds. The Duracel branded zoom ones were less useful. I used maglite professionally, but no longer buy them except for when they are $1 at yardsales. I’ve easily got over 100 flashlights in various vehicles, bags, drawers, clips, etc around the house. Every first aid kit, every go bag, every vehicle gets at least one, and usually 2 or 3 lights. Many of the maglites get led upgrades, but I like the incandescent for color rendering for first aid kits. I’m not opposed to cheap-ish lights, but when you need a light, you need it to work.
I’ve bought them several times from different vendors on Amazon, usually four or five at a time. I’ve had zero problems with any of them and they all appear identical. Here’s the latest order (from mid-November), where I ordered five for $19.70 with free shipping. They’re always listed as FordEx group but the reseller changes constantly.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006E0QAFY
As to durability, I suspect they’ll do fine on a 12-gauge although I haven’t had a chance to test that. I’ll do it on a 12-gauge because its free recoil is considerably higher than a 7.62, let alone a 5.56. I have done a more rigorous test, as I described. A 7-foot fall onto concrete results in considerably higher g forces than the shotgun recoil.
I’m not at all convinced that the name-brand flashlights use any better quality components or construction. My guess is that they’re probably made in the same factory as these cheapies, using the same components and the same automated equipment. I own several name-brand flashlights, including Fenix and Streamlight and (blast from the past) Kel-Lite, and I can’t see any difference in quality. It’s not like the cheapies use thinner traces or thinner circuit boards.
I’ve easily got over 100 flashlights in various vehicles, bags, drawers, clips, etc around the house
Uh oh. Mr. Nick is vying for the title of “Flashlight King” over Mr. Ray.
Well, I’ve been collecting them for a while. Most of my early working career took place in the dark. As does my current field service work.
nick
Why not order one of the Ultrafires and try using it? The things are miniature flame throwers even using a 1.5V AA alkaline. I can’t imagine how bright they’d be with a 3.7V 14500 lithium, but you might want to give it a try.
I like these little lights so much that I buy extras to give away. I just gave Barbara two of them for Frances and Al, and the next time I see Mary and Paul I’m going to give them each one as well. Time to order more …
Incidentally, I understand how you feel about something your life may depend on. I think I’ve mentioned before that when I was in college I went sailing with my girlfriend on a 14-foot Sunfish. She captained. I’d never been on a sailboat before, but she said I’d do fine crewing. So there I am, hanging out over the side as she went into a turn, and she ended up capsizing the boat and sticking the mast in the lake bottom. I was trapped in the tangled rigging and found out how long I could hold my breath before I finally managed to get clear of the lines and resurface. I swore that day that I’d never be without a knife. For a long time, I wore a Bowen belt knife (www.bowenknife.com/product-category/knife-buckles/) and carried a gravity knife, but nowadays I’m down to just a basic Victorinox Swiss-Army Knife.
RBT, reading the customer reviews, it looks like these are the flashlights that are deceptively marked, bait and switched, sometimes poorly built, etc.
Have you gotten the same model and functions every time you ordered? Did your order come from china or a US seller?
I don’t need any more flashlights, but I do keep buying them 🙂
nick
I’ve gotten the same every time. They always sell for $3.50 to $4 including shipping. As far as I can tell, they’re identical. That’s with several orders, each for multiple units, over a period of two or three years. As far as I remember, they all came on slow boats from China. (Amazon will sell you the exact same flashlight but shipped by Amazon from a US warehouse. The only problem is that they charge twice as much.)
All have worked properly, and I’ve given more than one of them a beating. Not just drop tests, but putting a fresh AA alkaline in and then turning it on and leaving it on until the cell dies. The light didn’t overheat.
Those attempts often come in the form of Amazon affiliate links, which I consider a questionable activity. You won’t find any affiliate links on this site or in the book, because I consider them a conflict of interest. People who click on them don’t pay any more, at least in theory, but I always wonder what motivated the authors to choose these particular products. Was it because they’re actually good products or because the author gets paid for recommending them?
This is why I will be willing to pay for your book. I already have a Sawyer SP191 and a a Baofeng UV82 on my wish list.
If you’re not signed up at smile.amazon.com, I think it is worth doing. Amazon donates .5% of smile purchases to a charity of your choice. They have a broad list, from the NRA Foundation to the ACLU. My charity is our daughter’s community orchestra.
Rick in Portland
where I ordered five for $19.70 with free shipping
The site lists them as 7 watt lights. No way. That would require pulling almost 5 amperes from the battery. Ain’t gonna happen as internal cell resistance will stop that. 300 lumens is probably at the LED, not out the lens as most cheap lights are rated that way.
The other item that is missing is current regulation based on the temperature of the LED. Without that little item long term survival of the LED is questionable. Yeh, you may have other lights but unless you are carrying them the lights are useless. I would rather carry one light I know will work rather than have 20 sitting on the shelf that may keep working.
With all the money that is spent on prepping, storing food and water, shelves, packaging and other items saving $40.00 on a valuable resource (light) just does not make sense. You are willing to pay more for a weapon that you can trust yet short yourself on a light, an item that is probably more useful than a weapon.
A light with multiple brightness levels is more useful than single brightness. A dimmer light to extend the run time of the batteries, a bright light when you truly need more brightness.
Uh oh. Mr. Nick is vying for the title of “Flashlight King” over Mr. Ray.
I am willing to give up my title. What I lack in quantity I make up for in cost. 🙂
I do have some cheap lights stashed in places “just in case”. My everyday lights are the more expensive variety, CR-123 cell in several of the lights. I have spare CR-123 batteries in the house. Some of the lights are AA and those I typically carry in my pocket. For long term storage I don’t trust AA batteries and instead rely on CR-123 lights as the cells don’t leak like AA batteries.
The light didn’t overheat.
Because the light is not delivering what it advertises. The current limiting is done by the AA cell internal resistance. When you start dealing with multi-cell flashlights, and in particular CR-123 cells current regulation and heat management is very important.
Yes, buy some cheap lights and have them stashed in strategic locations. But for real preparedness you need to have at least one high quality high end light, perhaps two of them.
Who cares if it’s putting out the amount of light they claim? It’s extremely bright. That claim, incidentally, is based on using a 3.7V 14500 lithium, not the AA alkaline, so it would actually be pulling about 1.9 amps rather than 5 amps.
You’re making assumptions about durability and quality that I see no basis for. I’m telling you these things work because I use them. You’re saying that the name-brand lights must be better because they’re so much more expensive. That’s faulty logic.
Now that Bergdahl is being tried for desertion, I wonder if Obola will get involved. What was it that Obummer traded for him? How much did it cost? White House welcome…he’s a hero! The Army knew from day one he was a deserter. OdooshNozzle didn’t care. Political opportunity. Can OnumbNuts pardon a military prisoner? That would be a good one.
It’s a political move at this point, just like the last time; my guess is that 90% of the country has forgotten all about it and Obola can’t score any points with it now.
Meanwhile the Euros are falling over themselves to hook up with the Red Chinese banks and currency; ISIS massacres continue; our national strategic infrastructure crumbles; we still have ground troops in the Suck and the Sandbox; Bibi and Likud have a new lease on life in wunnerful Israel, our bestest buddy and ally in the world, and a new stranglehold on our foreign policy in league with our neocon and Faux Nooz ass-hats; but, but, but…
…Bruce Jenner is a wicked ugly chick now; the Mooch and kidz just blew more millions on another exotic vay-cay; Angelina Jolie is having more surgery; and Teddy Cruz will save us all!
You’re saying that the name-brand lights must be better because they’re so much more expensive.
The name brand lights are indeed better. The name brand lights have current regulation, temperature regulation, reverse voltage protection, better optics, better heat sinks for the LED, better water protection. You cannot put all that in a light for $5.00.
pulling about 1.9 amps rather than 5 amps
Even that is a lot of power, over 7 watts if the current is limited. A lithium battery will discharge a lot of current, quickly, as the internal resistance is low. The actual power released to the LED may be enough to destroy the LED without proper regulation. Putting a resistor in series is not current regulation.
Hold a 7 watt bulb in your hand. That is a lot of heat to sink properly. Put one of those batteries in your light, turn it on, let it sit and see how hot it gets and what it will do to a LED that is not properly regulated or properly heat sinked. I have destroyed more than one LED by pushing to much current with no way for the LED to get rid of the heat.
That’s faulty logic.
No, it’s fact.
As I said, keep a few of the cheap lights stashed but don’t use, or rely on, them for critical situations. You need to have one or two high quality lights. The price is very little relative to all the other money that is spent on stocking supplies. In the process you have something with a much higher reliability and working when you need it.
Those are all buzz-word marketing hype. Unless a competent group of engineers looks at examples of each and verifies those claims I have no reason to believe them. As I said, I tested these cheap ones. Have you ever tried dropping your expensive models ten times onto concrete from seven feet or run over them with your truck?
People hate to think they’ve paid too much for something, which I suspect is the case here. Unless you have documented evidence of superiority rather than just claims made by marketing droids, you don’t have a case. As I said, bottom line, these things work and they work well. What more can you ask for?
We traded five known terrorists for one deserter. Brilliant.
“We traded five known terrorists for one deserter. Brilliant.”
That one example could stand for all the assorted brilliance of our various foreign policy measures over the past half-century. To top it off, the Commander-in-Chief of the most powerful armed forces in the history of the world made a little photo op of it at the White House, as though it was some sort of coup on his part.
These are people who will piss down your leg and tell you it’s raining.
I agree with RBT about the Cree flashlights. I bought a bunch on his recommendation a year or two ago. Torture tested one similarly to what he described (though it didn’t occur to me to drive over it with the car), and had no complaints. Have been carrying the tortured one since then, using it whenever I needed a flashlight, and have no complaints. Gave away maybe a dozen to various relations and acquaintances and have had no complaints, and that includes my mother-in-law, who carries hers, lit, when she goes walking in the evening for 30-60 minutes, and who is not bashful about complaining about things. Only thing close to a complaint was from my daughter, who doesn’t like that it doesn’t turn off automatically to save the battery, and I can hardly fault that design decision.
Well, I’m with Ray Thompson on this one.
It is curious that someone would accept that lots of shortcuts would be taken to cut the price of a radio to 1/5 but not accept that a flashlight would do the same.
It may be that, for certain use conditions, these are Good Enough (TM).
I ordered one to see for myself, and in 6-8 weeks, I’ll let you know what I think. I will say that at $4, with free shipping from China, that the chicom gov must be subsidizing the factory (or the shipping).
Checking alibaba,
It appears that you can buy them for one to two dollars in bulk, 1000 unit order, plus shipping. The LEDs themselves are about 20c in bulk, which doesn’t leave a lot for other components or labor.
Anyway, I’ll see when I get it.
nick
Achtung, flashlight fanboyz!
http://www.gizmag.com/nitecore-tiny-monster-tm26-flashlight/27212/pictures
Ohhhh, shiny……
nick
Those are all buzz-word marketing hype.
So why pay $800.00 for a rifle when a $200.00 rifle is available? Or are reliability and accuracy just marketing hype?
People hate to think they’ve paid too much for something
Hardly. I know what I paid for and I know what I have.
I wonder how much the taxpayers ponied up for this flashlight:
http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/unlv-performing-arts-center-las-vegas?select=hiOwpZz0oMxYRGZvI1jBKQ#hiOwpZz0oMxYRGZvI1jBKQ
@ Lynn regarding the bee treatment
Please be very mindful that bee stings and their venom can cause really bad reactions to plenty of people. Some people with bad reactions can get used to it over time. My uncle went into apiculture for a living and had mild reactions at the beginning but, over time, he lost the sensitivity to the venom. I got stung by one going with him and had to stay in bed for several days with leg inflammation.
It might have been donated by a patron.
Otherwise I’m guessing 300-800k$.
Checking the google, 30 years ago it was “$70,000+”
I guess the taxpayer’s money went further in 1980…
OH, forgot, no income tax in NV. So paid for by donations, gamblers, and student tuition.
nick
Jeez, the ” + ” was from private doners, but the original was from you and me:
“Costs exceeded $70,000 and required additional funding by Robert K. Hawkins, of Reno, and other private funds to match a National Endowment for the Arts grant.”
nick
Hey, what’s a few bucks for a great work of art, amirite? I just wish I had more to give. Our wise leaders sure know how to spend our money, don’t they?
But I detect sarcasm and snarkiness in your remarks above, Mr. nick, and uh-oh, in my own comments, too! Yikes! We need to be stacking time in a re-education camp toot-sweet! Maybe they’ll let us compare and test out cheap-o flashlights in there…
lol I’ve walked past the giant flashlight several times. They should have made a giant bingo dauber instead. I’d donate for that! I buy the small daubers for $1.25. The big daubers are only $1.00, hold more ink, but aren’t as finely engineered. They tend to dry out from the heat of my hand. The smaller ones have a smooth tip and the ink comes out just right and last longer. Yes, they cost more, but I want a dauber that won’t fail during a game. Rushing to the dauber vending machine could mean missing out on a bingo.
Wait, I think we we were talking about cheap flashlights weren’t we?
SOME of us here were talking about both cheap flashlights and expensive ones and there are at least three experts on the subject by my count, not including me. Leave it to a bunch of geeks to spend so much time on so much gimcrack arcana, like the thread recently on sealing plastic fucking bags. Jesus wept! I thought I was gonna keel over and smack my keyboard and monitor with my head from sheer tedium kicked up a bunch of notches.
I sure hope we don’t get into reloading ammo and the grains of this powder versus that powder in which kind of metallic measuring instrument that conducts heat in either Farenheit or Centigrade dependent on the humidity in the room as an asteroid passes by the Earth on a cloudy Tuesday morning.
You forgot to mention the effects of global warming on butterfly migration patterns, and the inevitable chaos theory effects of just a single butterfly flapping its wings. Sheesh, OFD, and you call yourself a geek full to the brim of arcana?
To answer Ray’s question, yes I’d spend $200 rather than $800 if the extra money would buy me nothing but a name. In fact, I just did. I bought two Mossberg Maverick 88 12-gauge riot shotguns, which were about $200 each. I could have bought the similar Mossberg 500 models or Remington 870 models, which cost significantly more but offer no demonstrable advantage in reliability or anything else that matters. Or I could have spent five or ten times as much on a different brand, but again that would have bought me nothing worth paying for. The Maverick 88 shotguns use top-quality components and are dead-solid reliable. That’s all that matters.
Flashlights are very simple devices, just a metal tube with a switch on one end and an LED and circuit board on the other. All of those components are inexpensive, and the ones used in the $4 flashlights appear identical to those used in the expensive name brand models. I’ve torture tested the cheap flashlights, and they work fine. What else could I want, and why would I pay more for the name?
All of those components are inexpensive, and the ones used in the $4 flashlights appear identical to those used in the expensive name brand models.
Have you taken an expensive light and a cheap flashlight apart and examined the components? Checked out the heat sinking? I used sites that do testing of the lights, significant torture test, light output tests, basically many test that I cannot perform. There are also reviews from users who put their lights through much more than I would ever attempt. My choices were based on their recommendations and those sites do not accept payment, only evaluation samples that must be returned.
The cheap lights are OK to stash in multiple locations and is probably a good idea. My only concern about long term storage of the lights is battery leakage, especially from AA cells.
I would consider having one high quality, well built, and yes expensive, light in your survival arsenal to be a good thing. Spending $50 to $60 on a single light that is highly rated for durability, beam quality, low battery consumption, weather proofing, etc. would seem to be no big deal relative to the cost of the other prepping supplies. CR-123 cells with very long shelf life, extremely low self discharge and no leakage. That light will work 10 years from now after sitting on a shelf. You spend a few thousand on food, packaging and storage then skimp on a good light. Like buying a Lamborghini and putting Pep Boys bias ply tires on the vehicle.
Besides, you wouldn’t lose an expensive light in a shallow river. And if you did, it would probably still work five years later.
Yes, I have compared components. Again, I haven’t driven these $4 flashlights to the edge. They’re designed to accept either 1.5V AA alkaline or 3.7V 14500 lithium batteries. I’ve never used anything but AA alkalines, which means I’m driving them at less than half of what I’d be doing with the lithiums. As I’ve said, I’ve allowed a fresh AA alkaline to exhaust itself and had no overheating problems. I’m prepared to believe that the light might have gotten quite hot if I’d done the same with a lithium, but it doesn’t really matter. Alkalines and Eneloop-technology NiMH cells are much more cost-effective and readily available. And the light is plenty bright with either, so who cares about lithiums?
As I’ve said, I already have name brand lights personally, but I’m sure not going to recommend buying one for anyone who doesn’t already have one. It’s a matter of allocating resources. There’s a saying among preppers, “Two is one and one is none”. In other words, if you don’t have something backed up you can’t count on it. And, as I said, I’d much rather have a whole bunch of these $4 lights than just one name brand one.
Incidentally, with regard to Maglites, I swore them off years ago. I had a bunch of them in everything from 4D to penlights, and experienced numerous early failures. As far as I’m concerned, their quality is much lower than these Ultrafire lights.
And, as I said, I’d much rather have a whole bunch of these $4 lights than just one name brand one.
I would rather have one name brand light and a bunch of cheap ones. The cheap ones stashed, the name brand generally with me all the time.
with regard to Maglites, I swore them off years ago
The quality of Maglites went down many years ago. Most no-name lights exceed Maglite quality. I bought some off brand at Costco for $15.00 including 4 C cells thus making the actual flashlight something just shy of $10.00. A fairly good light, better than Maglite. I don’t own any Maglite flashlights.
I do have several cheap lights. When I need a light I almost always generally return to the more expensive lights due to their better color rendition and better beam pattern. The cheap lights, especially the CR-123 powered ones, get hot fairly fast and the light begins to deteriorate, even to the point of one becoming permanently dim. Never happened with the AA lights or with the more expensive CR-123 lights.
I also have had two lights destroyed by leaking AA cells, one to the point of the battery being impossible to remove. Never had a problem with CR-123 cells. The shelf life and integrity of the CR-123 batteries is outstanding. That is why I would have at least one CR-123 light and some spare batteries. I keep at least a dozen batteries in stock all the time. Get them from Surefire as their quality seems to be really good. Tried some off brand CR-123 cells and they self discharged over a period of five years, Surefire was still strong after eight years. I use a ZTS pulse load tester for my batteries.
Never lost one in the river, yet. The year is still young.
Gentlemen, I propose flashlights at 10 paces.
I’m betting on Mr. Ray. Yes, Dr. Bob has more and could throw them at Mr. Ray and take out an eye. But, Mr. Ray’s superior lumens would blind Dr. Bob, causing him to fall over his walker, and busting his ass.
lol
“Gentlemen?”
Gentlemen, I propose flashlights at 10 paces.
That would take all the fun out of it. A lively discussion with no chance in hell of changing our minds has been missing for awhile.
Gentlemen?
I stand corrected.
Yeah, maglite, what a disappointment. Back in the day they were one of the best you could buy. They practically invented the market for a small reliable “professional” flashlight. Then came streamlight for the high end. I don’t know why Mag never developed a high end flashlight, or why they didn’t move to LED sooner. I suspect personal issues for the founder and owner, as he was subject to a really messy divorce some years ago. It was on the courtroom shows and in the news. Allegations of embezzling on the wife’s part, altered checks, lots of drama. Maybe after that his heart wasn’t in it. It is an iconic product still.
WRT leaking batteries, I used to use Duracell exclusively, including their pro line. At some point they changed the formulation and now they leak like a fountain and swell like a ball park frank. There is a LOT of discussion of this online in various forums. One plus is that whatever leaks out is less corrosive than before and cleans up easier. The minus is the swelling which has ruined a bunch of my streamlight penlights. I have switched to the Costco brand for AA and AAA, and Energizer for everything else. I’m still working my way thru stock on hand, but I won’t put a Duracell in anything where the swelling will matter.
As Ray says, self discharge is an important consideration and it is worth having at least one light that is in long term storage (your vehicle, BOB, etc) use CR123s. If not, then put spares in with the light. Even with good habits of rotation, it will inevitably be flat when you need it most.
nick
Yeah, I agree about Costco. I tested their alkaline AA and AAA cells against name brands years ago. They last as long or longer under both constant and intermittent loads and are much cheaper. We’ve been using them exclusively for 10 years or more and I’ve never had one leak.
I have switched to the Costco brand for AA and AAA
Does Energizer make the AA and AAA batteries for Costco?
For CR-123 cells I have had exceptional service from Surefire. Never had a bad battery or one that self discharged. Other brands I have had bad batteries when they arrive and some have self discharged over the span of three years. Not good.
The advantage to AA is they are plentiful. But in a disaster situation would they be so readily available? Stockpiling AA will result in many dead batteries after several years. Not so with CR-123. CR-123 may not be as easily obtained as AA but you can stockpile them now just in case. Same as you do for food.
In a disaster situation I would want at least one light on which I can depend and can also depend on the batteries. In my way of thinking that requires CR-123 powered lights and that generally eliminates the cheap clones. Spending $50 to $100 on such a light when you life may depend on the light is really not a high cost.
Besides, your friends can now make fun of you and shake their heads that you have such a costly light. As long as you don’t lose it in a shallow river.
The EverReady Alkaline AA batteries packs at Sam’s Club are rated for 10 years now. I keep five packages in stock and buy a new package each time I open one. I use two AA batteries in my Fenix E21 flashlights to walk with that last about a week or so.
How long will a CR456XYZ battery last in a properly sealed plastic vacuum bag under optimal storage conditions?
This question absolutely CRIES OUT for an answer and discussion….
Just funnin’, y’all…
The EverReady Alkaline AA batteries packs at Sam’s Club are rated for 10 years now. I keep five packages in stock and buy a new package each time I open one. I use two AA batteries in my Fenix E21 flashlights to walk with that last about a week or so.
Incompetent! The AA batteries that I buy are Duracell, not EverReady.
http://www.samsclub.com/sams/duracell-ct-aa-48ct-aa-48ct/prod10680092.ip?navAction=
Supposedly guaranteed for 10 years. Maybe, in the freezer.
The last I knew (data a few years old but reliable at the time) Duracell made Costco’s Kirkland brand alkaline cells, AA and AAA. Until recently the only 2 brands seen at Costco were Duracell and Kirkland. Today they have added Energizer, so I can’t be as confident about who makes Kirkland.
This is not a significant discussion of flashlights. For those who want to see what flashlights are really all about, there is no question that Candlepower Forums is the place to go. They call themselves flashaholics; I think that understates their condition.
Yikes.
They seem almost as anal on their collection of rules and regulations page:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/Rules.html
there is no question that Candlepower Forums is the place to go
That is where I got some recommendations for a few of my lights. Have not been there in a couple of years as I really need to stop buying flashlights.
Some of those people get a real thrill out of modding current flashlights into something insane. They like Surefire and Fenix as you can swap parts from lights within the brand. Some of those people have an insane collection of flashlights such lights not really for use, just for collecting, like any other collector of objects.
I have been purchasing this single AA battery LED flashlight lately on Amazon for $10 each. I like the form factor better the Cree light and I do not know why. I gave out about a half dozen of these last Christmas and plan to give out a couple of dozen next Christmas.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IEMUOWU/
It seems odd that these are $10 versus $25 to $250 for the many other models they list, including much dimmer ones. I’d almost wonder if this one is a counterfeit.
As regards:
Of those items…
Current regulation is not expensive, and plenty of cheap flashlights contain circuitry that’s worthy of the name “current regulation”. I have $3 flashlights that contain voltage boost circuitry to power an LED from an AAA battery; current regulation is an inherent part of that process. It’s not the world’s most precise current regulation, but then I consider it a feature that the light dims somewhat as the battery runs down, to help save the remaining power.
Temperature regulation? What would that be, and why would you care if a flashlight had it? What would it be protecting? The LED? Why? If it’s well heatsinked, the flashlight itself will get too hot to hold before the LED really starts suffering.
Better heat sinks for the LED? That’s mainly a matter of design; and design is cheap when amortized over a large production run.
Reverse voltage protection? That can just be a physical recess that the nipple on the top of an AA battery fits in, so that it doesn’t make contact unless inserted correctly. Or it can just be good circuit design. Again, design is cheap, especially when you have no scruples about copying good designs. If you really did have to spring for a Schottky diode to provide reverse protection, it might cost all of fifteen cents in quantity.
Better optics? That give you what, five percent more light? Or allow you to throw a tighter beam? Why should most users care about either?
Better water protection? What would that be, Viton O-rings so that the light can survive if dunked in a solvent that will destroy ordinary Buna-N? Or just the light being designed so that the O-rings aren’t chewed up by threads or by sharp edges in the installation procedure? That’s certainly a problem I’ve seen; but deburring sharp edges is not an expensive process. Again, it’s a matter of design, not of serious money being needed.
Now, I have no doubt that there’s a lot of cheap crap that gets made. But I don’t see any reason that cheap stuff has to be crap. My own main negative finding with the cheap stuff has to do with intermittent contacts. There are maybe five metal-to-metal electrical contacts in the typical aluminum flashlight, and since they are aluminum touching aluminum (or touching solder) they oxidize and deteriorate, eventually yielding a flashlight that intermittently gets weak or blinks out. Taking it apart and cleaning and retightening fixes things — but still, with a flashlight like that, I wouldn’t feel confident enough to have a conversation like one I once had:
“I’ll go out with my flashlight and find it.”
“What if your flashlight fails?”
“Why would my flashlight fail?”
Oh, and I should second Roy Harvey’s recommendation of candlepowerforums.com as the place for flashlight discussions.