08:52 – I got an interesting email yesterday from a woman who wanted to know what she and her husband could do this weekend to jump-start their prepping. They’re both about 40 and both have professional incomes. She drives a late-model full-size SUV and he drives a 4WD pickup. They live in an exurban home with a woodstove and a decent woodpile, so heat isn’t a problem. There’s a pond on their property. Both shoot sporting clays regularly, and each has a Remington 870 shotgun. Neither has any health problems.
She and her husband are becoming very concerned about civil unrest. Her older brother, sister-in-law, and their two teenagers live in a suburban area half an hour or so from her home, and the four adults have started talking about what they’d do if rioting and looting affects their area. They concluded that the best option was for the six of them to gather at the exurban home, where they’d hunker down and wait out the disturbances. The big problem, she said, is that their food would last maybe a week. There’s a Sam’s Club in town, half an hour or so away, and she asked if I could give her a shopping list that they could go out and fill this coming weekend.
So I sent her a list to get her started. It had the things on it that you’d expect, including a pickup load of bottled water; half a dozen 50-pound bags each of white rice, sugar, and flour; a hundred pounds of instant mashed potatoes; half a dozen cases each of canned chicken, tuna, Spam, and other meats; a bunch of soups and stews that can be used with rice or mashed potatoes as meal extenders; a dozen 3-liter bottles of olive and vegetable oil; half a dozen cases each of #10 cans of beans, vegetables, and fruits; herbs and spices; half a dozen 3-pound jars of peanut butter; several large boxes of Ritz crackers; cases of toilet paper and feminine hygiene stuff; FRS/weather radios, flashlights, lanterns, and lots of batteries; a trip to Dick’s or Gander Mountain to pick up 1,000 rounds or more of buckshot/slugs for their shotguns, not to mention spare shotguns for her brother’s family; and so on.
None of this is rocket science. Buy lots of water and lots of shelf-stable food. Go home, unload it, stack it, and head back for more. I told her that if they filled up all four of their vehicles on each run, they could get a very good start in one or two runs. She’s going to email me early next week to let me know how they did.
Cool; update, please, if she does email you back again.
They sound like they have their chit together, mostly; I tend to fear, however, that they may be up against it if equally chit-together looters swarm the house at some point, and I wonder how folks who’ve never been in combat or police shootings or even the training for that will make out.
I’d ask them if either or both or any of them do CCW and if not, why not? And get trained on THAT for starters, too. EDC 7×24 and get used to it.
Yeah, six shooters isn’t enough to defend a fixed position. I mentioned to her that it’d be a good idea to open discussions with their friends, people they shoot regularly with, and so on, with an eye toward having enough people in the house to defend themselves against realistic threats. To my mind, a dozen is probably an absolute minimum, and two dozen would be better. Of course, a dog or two helps a lot.
I’ll mention the other stuff you suggest, but right now all she’s doing is getting as prepared as possible as quickly as possible. She’s completely aware that this coming weekend is just a start. She’s lucky in that money doesn’t seem to be a problem, which isn’t the case for most folks.
Speaking of civil unrest: Ferguson Supporters Celebrate Shooting of Police Officers
OFD’s prediction of summertime social shenanigans may need revision.
EDC 7×24
I know that we have discussed this before but I’ve slept since then. What are good EDC (google says EDC = everyday carry) guns?
Does one need shotgun(s) if one already has pistols and rifles?
As far as I’m concerned, EDC applied to pistols is shorthand for a Colt 1911 pattern pistol in .45 ACP. Others may think differently.
The onliest advantage to a pistol is that you can carry it at all times. No sane person chooses a pistol if he can use a rifle or shotgun.
As to rifles versus shotguns, I’m a shooter (or used to be) and I’d go for the shotgun first unless there was very good reason to use a rifle. A good rifle lets you lay down sustained fire, which might be essential, and it’s good out to at least 2oo yards. A shotgun is much slower to reload and is good only out to 50 yards or so, but it has the advantages of multiple projectiles in a pattern, which makes it much easier to hit with at typical ranges, and its lower penetration, which is desirable if there are other friendlies/neutrals potentially in the field of fire. Imagine how you’d feel if you did end up in a firefight and one of your stray .308 bullets penetrated a house wall several hundred yards away and killed someone.
EDC guns, the snark but true answer is like the best camera question– the one you have with you.
With that in mind:
-it should be a good fit in your hand. (everyone is different, and too small can be as bad as too big.)
-you should be easily able to manipulate the controls under stress. (simpler is better, hence revolver or glock-style action.)
-any caliber is better than no caliber, some work better than others. (common ammo across all your guns can be a plus, unusual ammo can be a minus. MODERN ammo has made great strides in lethality in just the last couple of years so previously “wimpy” calibers are credible now.)
-you should be able to conceal it according to the laws in your area. (some count a flash or a “print” as exposure, so you need to be better at hiding it.)
-you must actually carry it. (good holster and a commitment to carrying is a must.)
Some actual guns to try for fit:
Glock- in one of the sub-compact varieties, G19, G26, or the new G42 in 380.
Smith and Wesson M&P Shield in 9mm or Bodyguard.
Ruger- LCP, LCR, or new version of LC9. (little carry pistol, LC revolver, LC 9mm)
I own several of these that are listed, and all have pluses and minuses. The Shield is a great size, shoots well, conceals well, uses 9mm, and is simple to run. Recommended if it fits you. The new LC9 solves some of the issues with the old LC9 and it is slightly smaller than the Shield.
Holsters make the difference for EDC. You will probably buy several before finding the right fit, comfort, features. The little $9 ballistic nylon sheath holster from Uncle Mike’s will not be enough.
You don’t have to spend it all at once, but be prepared to eventually buy some spare magazines, ammo, a couple different styles of holster, and cleaning supplies. You will spend about as much on this stuff (at least half as much not counting ammo) as you did for the gun. Budget for some classes (CHL, intro to defensive pistol, at a start) and time on the range. Many people are surprised the CHL classes don’t usually teach you how to shoot. Also, there are a couple of law firms that specialize in handguns and shooting that have a membership or subscription model. Check them out, they are a good value if you end up drawing your weapon, and VERY cheap insurance considering….
NB- ALWAYS use a holster that fully covers the trigger on any of the guns listed above or ANY striker fired (glock style) pistol. That means in you pocket, in the purse, or in your glovebox. (and on body carry is recommended for a number of reasons, some of which have been in the news lately.)
nick
Sean Hannity just plugged the U.S. Concealed Carry Association on his radio show. Said that he has been carrying for over 20 years.
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/RadioOffers/SeanHannity_National.asp?ID=Radio&SID=Hannity_Homepage
“When You’re Forced To Defend Your Loved Ones, Your Toughest Battle May Be In The Courtroom…”
We were lectured on this extensively with several documented cases in a gun course that I took a couple of years ago.
Printing in The Great State of Texas is OK. And I do not remember where I got that tidbit of wisdom. It may be wrong …
The LCP and LCR are too small for my hand. I once held a S&W bodyguard 38 revolver and it was a perfect small gun for me. I was idiot and did not buy it as I have never seen one for sale since. My Charter Bulldog .44 is way too big to carry concealed but it is a great car gun.
Clancy’s latest books have been talking about Thunderwear holsters for concealed carry (spooks). Looks like a good way to blow one’s junk off. Not sure that you can get a 1911 in there.
http://thunderwear.com/holsters.asp
My carry holster is a custom Milt Sparks. He made six of them back in 1978 or 1979 and decided not to offer them for sale because they took so much work that he’d have priced himself out of the market. This holster is perfect for carrying a 1911 concealed. It keeps the pistol tucked in against your body. It doesn’t show on me if I’m wearing a loose shirt, hoodie, jacket, etc., but that may be because my waistline is 10″ or 12″ smaller than my chest measurement. For those whose chests and waists are about the same, I can see where concealment might be a problem.
Mr. nick’s advice is right on-target, haha, and I also agree with Dr. Bob on the shotgun vs. rifle quandary, but will also feel free to point out, like the dick I am, that a rifle is real nice for stand-off scenarios when you DO, in fact, wanna keep goblins at a good distance, before they’re climbing through your windows and you’re now down to the shotgun and pistols. That kinda depends on your locale/fields of fire, so YMMV. If one goes the rifle route at some point, one has a veritable plethora of stuff to research and pick out from, and I’m still on it; I have it narrowed down to three or four but every time a new mag article comes out I change my mind again.
Case in point:
http://mgi-military.com/
Having a rifle like that, with extra caliber upper receivers/barrels, would certainly be nice to keep on hand…
As for EDC handgun; you got the choice between semi-auto and revolver first of all; I have become a convert to semi-auto after decades of the revolver thing for this purpose. They’re significantly more concealable and have more ammo right off the bat and that ammo nowadays has made great strides in capability since the days of the early 9mm crunchentickers that the late Col. Cooper disdained. So with that in mind my constant EDC is a S&W Shield 9 w/extra mag. I’m putting better sights on it this week and it’s in an OWB Bladetech holster.
I’m probably moving up to the Glock 19 with improved sights and a grip adaptation, with extra mag, and carry that WITH the Shield as my backup.
Mrs. OFD will learn and carry the .357 revolvers for now and we’ll both get up to speed with the shotgun battery this season.
@ofd, what sights are you getting for the Shield? I have trouble seeing the sights in medium to low light, but I didn’t see any aftermarket available when I bought mine, with the exception of some that were $160.
As a compensation, I’ve been working on point shooting….
nick
“@ofd, what sights are you getting for the Shield?”
I have 20-20 vision with my bifocals but without them and in conditions of low light and darkness I wanted an edge, besides trying to finagle a handheld or mounted light on a pistol that small.
Yup, OFD sprung with the bucks for these:
http://www.vikingtactics.com/product-p/vtac-vsmp.htm
That’s also where I got the padded sling, light mount and light for the 870 and will do so again for the Mossberg 20-gauge.
Mnnnnmmm, shiny!
nick
I have my flash turned off. Why does http://www.ttgnet.com/journal/ ask me if it can run flash? I did not see any flash apps on your main page.
“Mnnnnmmm, shiny!”
I know their stuff is kinda spendy but this is for home/life defense here, why stint on the materials and tools for the job? So the AR’s I’m looking at recently are more in the $2k range than the less than half that I was looking at before. We won’t have a whole arsenal here, only enough for our protection and that we can become proficient in using.
Literary question for OFD, or anyone else with thoughts: What do you think of Aldous Huxley’s Crome Yellow and Henry James’s The Turn of the Screw? I’ve been trying to read them, haven’t gotten far in, and lately it’s been closer to “trying to force myself to get another page”.
Crome Yellow is supposed to be a witty and well-written poke at either Brit genteel society a century ago or literary tropes regarding same. I’m finding it pointless and insipid and just wish all of the characters would go and get drowned.
The Turn of the Screw is supposed to be a fantastically good ghost story (with “fantastically” used in both senses at the same time because when it comes to pointless puns I’m Da Bomb). I’m finding it re-e-e-e-aly slo-o-o-o-o-ow and wonder if there’s ever going to be some suspense, or action, or at least a high-speed car chase.
So, the question: is either worth continuing on with? Do they get better? Is their status as literary milestones deserved, or is that status just more overblown crap perpetuated by English Lit profs who have never sold a story?
As a general thing, I read a lot of old literature, with “old” being defined as “older than I am”. Not the advised “two old for every one new”, but a fair amount. There’s a lot of good stuff from the hoary old days before the mid 1960s. Alas, there’s also a lot of junk, and it’s not always clear which is which.
OFD,
There are many good choices for AR in the under $800 range. S&W has one nicely set up for about $700. If you aren’t deployed, or 3 gunning in competition, I think you are better off with 4 good rifles with red dots, a flashlight, and some parts/mags/ ammo for $4000 than 2 rifles that you’d be afraid to drag in the dirt or drop. Plus you get redundancy and can equip helpful folks if need be.
I’ve GOT a $4000 AR (w/all goodies) and I’d trade it for four M4 style rifles in a second. Prices are way low at the moment, so I can’t get close to getting my money out. It’s a beautiful rifle, but not as practical as I’d like.
One other consideration. Even when SHTF, unless it’s national thing, you probably DON’T want to be standing in your front yard dressed like Tactical Timmy, holding your scary black rifle. MUCH better, in my thinking, to be standing their in a worn and stained neutral colored Carhart jacket, holding a plain looking “hunting rifle” with wood furniture. Extra points if it looks old or beat up. Of course, it still should be semi-auto, with a detachable mag, and chambered like your black rifles in 556 or 762. Save the SBR for night time or perimeter patrol at the retreat. You want to present as ‘armed, but not worth the effort.’ Tons of tactical gear, and expensive weapons, and you just look like a mobile supply dump to the bad guys.
nick
“Literary question for OFD, or anyone else with thoughts: What do you think of Aldous Huxley’s Crome Yellow and Henry James’s The Turn of the Screw?”
Although I am allegedly “hyper-literate,” I must confess that I’ve not read either of those, but I’ve seen before that other hyper-literate types like the James short story a lot.
My own faves are Kipling’s “The Phantom Rickshaw,” and “The Green Man,” by the late Kingsley Amis; the latter’s other books are highly recommended by me if you dig nasty backbiting English humor. See if you can find the movie version of “The Green Man,” starring Albert Finney, who does a grand job of it.
Beyond that I’ve always kinda got a kick out of Lovecraft’s stuff, too.
My reading tastes generally fall WELL before the mi-60’s, more like the 1760’s.
“S&W has one nicely set up for about $700.”
You must mean their M&P Sport, amirite? I am looking at that, and now in preference to the Ruger AR-556 on the basis of the former having a much longer run building AR’s, nothing against the Ruger, per se.
“I think you are better off with 4 good rifles…”
You know, that is a very good point, and one I’ve only barely considered. No, I don’t wanna end up losing or messing up an expensive AR, and our weather and terrain would not generally be kind to that puppy, either. I dig the redundancy of more than one and your other excellent point on the ability to load up other capable souls.
“…you probably DON’T want to be standing in your front yard dressed like Tactical Timmy, holding your scary black rifle…”
Indeed, and you won’t catch me doing that, ever. I fit right in hereabouts in most respects and my preference is to maintain a low profile and be the ‘gray man’ in public areas. Unremarkable, though I can’t do much about my height short of slouching a lot, nor the hyper-vigilant cop look I probably still present. But I sure got the clothes down pretty good. But no, no loads of tac gear hanging off me, either.
Now I’m thinking a couple of those S&W’s to start, plus the optics, slings, etc. Mrs. OFD can graduate to one of them after the revolver and shotgun familiarization.
Excellent food for thought, Mr. nick; thanks!
OFD, you’re welcome. I always like the discussion. I’ve been thinking about some of this stuff for a while, but in many ways I’m still a tyro. Hearing other folks’ reasoning and experiences is very helpful to refining my own ideas.
As I look closer at some of the “everyone knows” stuff, a lot of it seems to have a common root, and much of it could benefit from some fresh air. A lot of the online stuff is hearsay and keyboard commandos who haven’t tried it or have no direct experience, or they have some experience but it doesn’t transfer to a different field. I took a lot of it as gospel at first. I’m a little more skeptical now. Until I can get the background that led to the decision or doctrine, I’m less likely to just believe.
Also, I have the (mis)fortune to have put some of it to the test during an number of events now. I found that I had a lot of untested assumptions 🙂
The online prepper community has some interesting folks. Gunnies, survivalists, back to the land and homesteaders, greenies, hams, and the pros- EM folks, .mil, .gov. LOTS of good cross pollination going on.
I feel like every person I can get to start prepping is one less person I need to worry about if and when SHTF. Friends, family, or strangers, if they can take care of themselves, they won’t be bothering me.
nick
BTW, the Sport is a nice example. That’s exactly what I was talking about, although the exact brands and setups change every couple of weeks. Major manufacturer, good basic setup you could run as is, but add $200 in accessories and it is a really nice value.
Which page? I have never knowingly included flash on a page. I have it blocked as well on my browsers.
Which is a point in favor of the Ruger Mini-14. With a 5-round magazine in place, it looks a lot like our Marlin Model 60 .22 rimfires.
For handguns (excluding revolvers), I would also strongly suggest preppers stick with .22LR, 9mm, or .45ACP. In a lengthy dystopian survival situation, you never know when you may have to start scavenging ammo (or taking it by force) and so it’s best to stick with what you’re most likely to find. The .25ACP, .32ACP, 10mm, and .50AE probably look cool in a handgun collection but when the ammo is exhausted they’re mostly going to be expensive paperweights.
I’d add .38/.357 and 5.56/.223 to that short list, Mr. Chad. Maybe .30-06 and .308, too.
I think the very good point that Mr. nick has made is to avoid appearing like some kind of robo-tac commando and to maintain a very low profile. That includes our weapon systems. So no AR’s bristling with lasers and gimcracks and doo-hickeys, ditto the shotguns. In my case just slings, lights and minimal optics, with open-sight capability all the time.
I would also strongly suggest preppers stick with .22LR, 9mm, or .45ACP
No .40 S&W? I’ve got two thousand rounds of it. I do not have any 9mm ammo or guns.
I looked at the S&W Shield .40. Quite a few people are saying that it goes kaboom in your hand so I will be passing on that one. There is a picture on this page:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/359609-sadly-another-40-shield-kaboom.html
The S&W Shield 9mm has many positive reviews around the web.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/06/ralph/gun-review-smith-wesson-mp9-shield/
I just have trouble thinking that a semi is a good EDC gun. Takes lots and lots of practice and I am a lazy old fart.
I have my flash turned off. Why does http://www.ttgnet.com/journal/ ask me if it can run flash? I did not see any flash apps on your main page.
Which page? I have never knowingly included flash on a page. I have it blocked as well on my browsers.
It was your journal entry page, http://www.ttgnet.com/journal/ .
I am not getting the flash activation notice today. Weird.
That’s a simple redirect to the blog. No fancy stuff at all.
T shirt seen today, patterned after the British “Keep Calm”.
NRA logo at the top.
KEEP
CALM
and
CARRY
GUNS
There’s a variety of them tee-shirts available these days with similar sentiments. Haven’t seen that one in public up here yet, though.